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This is actually a c70, but not many people visit that forum.
My original wheels are long gone from the original owner. To make the Arelli wheels fit on the volvo hub, the rotor retaining pin was removed. I can put a machine screw in, but even the lowest-profile head keeps the wheels from seating correctly.
Because I can't hold the rear rotors on-center when I put the wheels back on, the rear hub always slips off-center when I torque the back wheels down and then I am treated to a scritch-scritch noise where the off-center hubs are rubbing against the E-Brake and calipers.
*if* I could track down a set of volvo wheels, I could put a the proper pins back in, and it'd be fine, but those have been impossible to track down.
Are the rear wheel rotors supposed to fit tightly on the hub, or is there supposed to be play?
If there is supposed to be play in the rotor, does anyone have a suggestion on how to hold the thing steady while I torque my wheels down? Some sort of adhesive, chewing gum,...?
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Stopped by the junkyard today after work and pulled the rear rotors (and pins) from the s70 that donated my replacement hood.
I checked the form, fit, and condition and bought the pair for $30.00.
I pulled the rear rotors off my c70 and realized that the rotors were identical (although the replacements are thicker). The hub has a slight male cone at the base that centers the slight female cone of the rotor. However, the rotor doesn't fully seat until it is held tightly against the hub and the potential for it to go a little bit askew is much higher with the aftermarket wheels.
I found that even the pin did not prevent it from seating incorrectly and used the lug bolts to center everything.
I put the pin in, removed the lugs an installed the wheels. Since these are aftermarket wheels they have holes for 5x108 and 5x114 (I think). I was lucky to find the point where the hole for the 5x114 fit cleanly over the index pin. I torqued everything down and it all seated correctly.
This is a nice success and helps things. Unfortunately the "shrink-shrink" noise is still there when I drive the car, suggesting that the problem is either the e-brake shoes (one of which lost it's pad when I pulled the rotor) or the thinning rear pads.
The noise reminds me of when I let the 940's rear pads run down to metal... except that the pads still have a little life... Arg. I'll have new rear pads and shoes in the mail tomorrow, so I'll post back if replacing the pads doesn't stop the noise.
Thanks for the advice!
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I still don't like the 'shrink-shrink' noise. Something is unbalanced or not aligned properly.
When replacing the brake shoes, first loosen the Ebrake cable at the handle a lot. Adjustment screw is in the center console, hidden by a trap door in the bottom of the storage area and accessible with a flat screwdriver.
The rear shoes are held up with 2 metal tabs, probably a little rusty. These tabs must be at 90 degrees and are easily bent when someone tries to take off the rotors. Use brake grease on any moving part, including the springs.
The star wheel adjuster must be adjusted before tightening the Ebrake cable.
Clean off the hubs with a wire brush before putting the rotor back on. I use a little silicone brake grease to help keep the rust from forming too soon.
Klaus
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Praying for Cynthia Amendt, heaven bound
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As it turns out the "Shrink" noise was coming from the left front wheel.
The rotor was rubbing on the edges of the thin sheet metal backing plate that sits behind the rotor.
I could see where metal had been hitting, but could find nothing particularly "out of whack" so I gave it a few judicious whacks with a small ball-pein hammer and that seems to have solved it.
Well... mostly. I still hear it a bit, but it is all but gone. It may take a couple more whack-sessions to completely smooth out whatever was hitting but at least most of the noise is now gone.
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Good deal and right prescription for the dust shield. Just keep banging out of the way.
But that probably means that you should take a good look at the bearings later this spring when the dust settles on this car. And the axle boots.
Klaus
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Praying for Cynthia Amendt, heaven bound
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I've checked the CV boot thoroughly (nice and rubbery) but I did not pull them to check the bearings. Still working the low-rider rear issue
that and the nice new CEL
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Why are your rotors loose on the hubs? A single screw can't center the rotor, the hub should. What am I missing here? Numerous 240s and 850s, I have never had a problem with rear rotors moving around when the retaining pins are removed.
Sorry I'm not helping, just trying to understand. As far as centering the rotor while fitting the wheel - maybe a few equal thickness shims between the rotor and hub. Or re-fit the rotor bolt and drill/grind the mating surface on the wheel to clear the head.
-Will
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854 / 244 / Mini
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posted by
someone claiming to be Jack
on
Wed Feb 24 05:40 CST 2010 [ RELATED]
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Well, that's part of the question really.
The front rotors sit tightly on the hub and while they will spin out of bolt-hole alignment w/o the lugs holes, they won't fall off center.
The rear wheels have maybe a 1/8" of total play sliding up, down, or to the side when I put the wheel on. Either the tolerances are insufficient or the wrong rotor is sitting on these hubs - that doesn't seem right either. Some of the suspension parts were replaced with all OEM volvo parts, it seems inconsistent that the rotors would be wrong.
I'm thinking of visiting a local junkyard s70 (before it gets crushed) and checking (and maybe pulling) the rear rotors. Maybe I can find a definitive explanation there. IPD lists the same rear rotor for all the 1st gen svc70 cars...
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Yeah, it's hard to imagine that one could fit the wrong rotor. I can't recall where the clearances are taken up. I could see Mother Volvo going to a design that allowed bigger clearances which allow bigger tolerances on some dimensions and therefore lower cost. However something still has to accurately and precisely center the rotor - and surely it's not that retaining bolt.
850 and S/V70 rotors last a long long time. If the junkyard S70 rotors aren't original, there's a decent chance they'll be good as replacements down the line.
Upon reading my first post again, my suggestion wasn't very clear: "As far as centering the rotor while fitting the wheel - maybe a few equal thickness shims between the rotor and hub." I think we're on the same page, but what I meant was to use shims to take up the gap radially between the rotor and the hub (as opposed to sandwiched between the two). Still not a very good or reliable long-term fix.
-Will
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854 / 244 / Mini
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I got what you were thinking. Not a permanent solution, but it might get me by until I can source some proper wheels.
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The holding pin is just that, it holds the rotor in place until the torque of the lug nuts takes over. Don't want the rotor falling off when you are changing the tire in the dark.
The rear hub should kind of just hang there, without falling off, while you carefully put the wheel back on.
A spacer on the wheel should bring the wheel out far enough to clear a phillips round head screw. But you don't have a spacer. Time to Google wheel spacer...
Klaus
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Praying for Cynthia Amendt, heaven bound
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Hi Klaus.
I don't have a FWD Volvo yet (still have a fleet of 240s, but I know I'll someday have to change over), so I don't know what the assembly looks like, but I've been reading the FWD forums regularly for educational purposes so I'll be ready when I get my first FWD. Which brings me to a question:
I read your remark, "...The holding pin ... holds the rotor in place until the torque of the lug nuts takes over. Don't want the rotor falling off when you are changing the tire in the dark...."
This has me wondering. I thought that FWD's rear brakes were very much like the 240's rears (i.e., not of the "floating caliper" type) in that the calipers were firmly bolted in place. So if the calipers are in place, won't that hold the rotor so that it doesn't fall off when the wheels are removed? On the 240s, there is also a small (10mm) holding bolt (later, a pin), but these can be removed if you have (e.g., older winter) wheels without the provision for the pin -- and the rotor won't fall off when you change your snow tires.
So I can't imagine how a rotor could fall off if the caliper is in place, so can you explain this?
Thanks.
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All calipers are bolted firmly to the suspension. In order to get the rotor off, the caliper must come off also. With the caliper off and hanging on the spring, the rotor can then be removed.
Volvo brand wheels have a depression in the backside to receive the positioning pin. Jacks wheels do not, and that results in a problem. Without a pin to hold the rotor, he would have to use a lug 'bolt' to hold the rotor, then put on the caliper, remove the lug bolt, get the ill fitting wheel on and screw in the rest of the lug bolts.
Someone invented a locator pin, IPD has some, that screw into a lug screw so the wheel can then slide over the pin and hold the wheel inplace while the other lugs can be fitted. The pin is then removed and the last lug bolt is screwed in.
The 1998 C70 uses the same style rotor as the 240s, with the builtin drum, but the calipers are like the fronts for the 240. The front wheel calipers are much larger and better designed.
Klaus
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Praying for Cynthia Amendt, heaven bound
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Thanks Klaus.
And yes, I knew about the pins, at least -- I bought a pair (not just one) for my daughter's car's tool kit when she bought a '07 S60 2.5T. I figured that just one pin would still let the wheel wobble while it was supported (at least that would happen in my previously, briefly owned M-B's with just one pin), making aligning the lug bolt in the hole difficult -- two pins, however, made them hold their alignment steady so that inserting the lug bolt was easy.
Thanks again, and best regards,
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Hi Ken, I am not KlausC by a long shot but I can explain this for you I think.
I think the big difference here is in the wheel lug setup.
On the RWD cars, the rotor and wheel fits over a set of wheel studs that are seated in the hub and stick out away from the car. Let's call this a 'male' coupling and the rotor, wheel, and lug nut, have a female coupling. This is the 'traditional' setup.
On the AWD/FWD cars, the setup here is a bit different. On these cars the wheel and rotor are both the same (relatively, the parts aren't interchangeable from a 740 to an S70 or course), but there are no wheel studs in the hub. Instead the wheel bolts go straight through the wheel and rotor and fasten into threaded holes on the hub.
here is a link to one of these lug bolts on FCP:
http://www.fcpgroton.com/product-exec/product_id/30397/nm/Volvo_V70_Wheel_Lug_Bolt_1998_2000_/category_id/44
So you can see, if there are no lugs in place to hold the rotor up, it really doesn't have anything else there to mechanically hold it in place. In practice, between the emergency brake on the inside of the rotor and the hydraulic brake caliper (firmly bolted in place, as you noted) the rotor won't go far.
That said though, it is quite a pain to lift your road wheel up to the rotor, lug bolt in hand, and 'knock' it a bit out of alignment so now the lug holes in the rotor are no longer lined up with the lug holes in the hub behind it... you have to put the wheel down and start all over. Fastening the little pin in place keeps the rotor lined up perfectly so you don't move it while you're trying to get a wheel on there, or whatever.
BTW, always use anti-seize on the back of your rotor so it doesn't freeze to the hub, and more again on the front of the rotor so it doesn't freeze to your wheel.
I'm like KlausC and use a whole lot of silicone brake grease and silver anti-seize on everything to make sure I can get it all apart when I need to go in there again, and to keep everything moving freely in the meantime.
--
1998 V70 AWD->FWD Turbo 200k+
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Oh, I see! Thanks very much.
When my daughter bought her new car (a 2007 S60 2.5T) -- and being 3,000 miles away from her -- I got her a pair (!) of lug "pins"?, so that in case she ever had to change a flat tire, she wouldn't have to fumble with supporting the wheel while trying to align the "lug stud" (what I call it) to screw it in place. And the reason for getting her a pair of them was to make sure that the wheel would be oriented so that the three empty holes would all be properly aligned to accept their lug studs, after which she could unscrew the pins and put in the remaining two studs.
But that was the only value. I never thought that the rotor's "hat" could rotate freely without that small bolt (which 240s, with their lug bolts, don't need) -- but that makes sense! So that small bolt is important!
Again, thanks for pointing that out.
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