posted by
someone claiming to be yct
on
Thu Jan 21 12:57 CST 2010 [ RELATED]
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The time has come for our 1995 850 turbo sedan to need a rear main seal. This is after 180+k miles and 15.5 years in our hands. Everything else is in good condition. Since a rear main seal is beyond my expertise of working on a car, I am wondering whether you have any opinions/comments on the following questions:
1) How long could we drive the car the way it is? At this time, it leaked one quart after 2000 miles. (It never ever needed any oil during the past 15.5 years, while we followed a 2,500 mile/conventional oil-change schedule.)
2) Should we have it fixed at an indy mechanic I trust and who asked for ~$650, but he would not give any warranty for this work? (He said that given the age and miles of the car, it might leak again soon.)
3) Should we probably continue keeping the car, after we have it fixed for ~ $1,100 at the local volvo dealer?
Any opinions/comments on the above (particularly on item #1 above) would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
1995 850 turbo sedan, a really great car
2006 S60 2.5T, a really nice car my other half likes very much
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I had a rear main seal go on a former 97 850 sedan (NA). I probably drove it for about a month or 2 before getting it taken care of. Went to an indy shop, was over $1000 (about 6 years ago). I had only 100,000 miles on it. If you got 180 on it, you were very lucky. With the miles on it, I'm not surprised that your mechanic said no warranty. For $650, I'd take it. If you have babied that car, it's a small price to pay. For what it's worth, my 96 850T had a leaking head gasket at 215,000, that was $1250 (indy). If you are going to keep it, have the flame trap replaced, about $250, that will help preserve your seals.
--
'96 855 Wagon, 200k (and formerly 97 850, 120k)
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If you DIY, it is a 5 hour job. The intake manifold has to come off to get to all of the parts to be replaced. You will need a new manifold gasket and I suggest getting one from the dealer (OEM) because it is easier to work with than the one supplied from FCP Groton. The other FCP parts are all OEM as far as I can tell.
I also would clean out the throttle body at the same time. The manifold bolts on easier if the TB is off.
Just figure on a nice long day in the garage. If it is not heated, get a portable heater to make it manageable. Putting the car on ramps helps your back so you don't wind up bending over too much. Nothing is accessed from underneath the car.
The fuel injectors do not need to come off, they can stay with the intake manifold, which just gets lifted up and out of the way.
Klaus
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Proud owner of a 220S. If I had more room, I would have more Volvos.
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posted by
someone claiming to be yct
on
Tue Jan 26 12:48 CST 2010 [ RELATED]
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Thanks a lot again.
One interesting observation in this case is that my car does NOT have a smoking dipstick at all. Could this mean that the problem in my car may be only the RMS? I am getting a bit confused with the potential source of my car's leaky RMS.
1995 850 turbo sedan, a really great car
2006 S60 2.5T, a really nice car my other half likes very much
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The RMS does not have an expected life span. It is continually bathed in oil and thus keeps its flexibility. There are 2 reasons the seal will give out. Excessive crankcase pressure and sludge.
We discussed the PCV to death. The sludge problem is different. If the build up of sludge is extreme, the RMS can dry out but nothing happens regarding a leak. Until, you start using synthetic oil... The cleaners in synthetic can and do remove sludge build up, and that then leaves a dry RMS which is no longer sealing.
You indicated that you use regular oil, not synthetic, so there is no reason why we would think that any sludge has been removed. If you think that sludge is the cause, then replacing the RMS will be the complete solution. At least for another 100K miles.
Klaus
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Proud owner of a 220S. If I had more room, I would have more Volvos.
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I bought a 96 860 back in 2001 with 108k that had a RMS leak. I cleaned the PCV system (found the flame trap all clogged up). After about 25k the leak stopped and hasn't returned. I think in a lot of cases if you correct the PCV pressure problem, the seals will re-seat themselves. I now have 225k on the car (no oil leak, but a number of other issues :).
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Listen to Klaus! Many mechanics will happily replace things without addressing the cause of the problem (excess pressure in this case). After you've fixed the PCV problem, run some AutoRx through the engine. Some people have had luck with this fixing the oil leak by itself, perhaps because sludge has reduced the ability of the seal to seal! But if you don't fix the pressure problem, the leak will just return whatever you do.
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'96 850 and '83 244 DL both at about 200K; gone but not forgotten '81 245 and '64 Amazon
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Just keep oil in it and save your money. How long are you planning to keep said vehicle. If the answer is a year or two dont repair. If longer you may want to.
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Your oil leak isn't bad yet. Driving it will not hurt, but the leak will get worse.
The primary cause of the leak is an increase of crankcase pressure, not a failure of the rear main seal(RMS). Replacing the $30 part is labor intensive, the tranny must be separated from the engine to get access. But it will leak again if the crankcase pressure is not reduced.
The primary culprit is not the type of engine oil used, but synthetic does not clog up the PCV system as readily as regular oil. I would suggest cleaning out the oil separator or replacing it altogether. The parts are about $150 and labor by a good mechanic is in the 3 hour range.
Your car is worth more to you than the resale value, because you also have to factor in the price of a replacement vehicle.
Klaus
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Proud owner of a 220S. If I had more room, I would have more Volvos.
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posted by
someone claiming to be yct
on
Mon Jan 25 18:03 CST 2010 [ RELATED]
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Thanks a lot Klaus. I have already inquired about the PCV/PTC cleaning. The dealer-service people indicated that replacing the PCV/PTC would indeed take ~ 3 hours labor plus parts; they did not seem to be inclined to clean the PCV/PTC system. The dealer-parts department fellow indicated that the PCV system may also be leaky and that I should be able to check this out rather easily, although I did not succeed at it. The indy mechanic indicated that if the seal has dried up and become leaky, then PCV/PTC cleaning would not really help (but, of course, we do not know if that is the case in my car). I have bought a fluid that 'is supposed to stop rear main seal leaks', but I have hesitated to use it so far. Any further ideas/suggestions would be greatly appreciated again.
Thank all of you very much.
1995 850 turbo sedan, a really great car
2006 S60 2.5T, a really nice car my other half likes very much
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And it's best to do it soon! My car completely blew out the RMS after I put off doing the PCV cleaning. I finally did it a few weeks ago, but I think it was too little too late, and it now lays bleeding oil all over my driveway until i can afford to have the RMS replaced.
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Don't put any of those products in your engine.
The problem here is not with your RMS it is with your PCV system.
PCV stands for Positive Crankcase Ventilation. 'Positive' is the operative word here - it does it actively, rather than passively.
It's purpose is to pull the vapour out of the crankcase (oil vapour, gasoline vapour, water vapour, heated air, etc). It is designed to allow any oil vapour to condense back to oil and drip back into the block, and to use anything that won't condense (ie: stays a vapour) as combustion product by feeding it back into your intake. In the old days they just let this vapour out into the atmosphere - you can imagine why that is not allowed any more.
When this system is working properly it maintains a low air/vapour pressure inside the crankcase. When it is not working correctly the air/vapour pressure climbs and the seals are not designed to take the increased pressure.
If you do your PCV soon enough the seals will go back to operating correctly. The RMS should not 'dry out' because it's always got a good oil supply. It's possible for oil crud/sludge to build up around it and rob it of the constant access to fresh oil, but this should not happen with good oil maintenance. AutoRx could help with this.
Your dealer does not want to do the PCV because it's a pain - they'd rather do the RMS because they make a lot of money on labour on that job. Ie: they'd rather do the crazy expensive RMS job than the PCV job that involves lots of twisting and bending and skinned knuckles and sore backs... (just my guess)
Get the PCV done somewhere that they know Volvos.
There is really no sense 'cleaning' the PCV system - just replace everything. The hoses will be brittle from age/heat, the oil separator is a sealed unit that can't be cleaned reliably, and it takes just as much work to replace everything as it would to clean it. Just buy a new kit and do the job. It's very DIY-able job and some research online will help you sort out the details. Find a friend with a garage - heated ones are esp nice.
There's no sense selling a car you like because of a ~$300 maintenance job.
--
1998 V70 AWD->FWD Turbo 200k+
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posted by
someone claiming to be dnlars
on
Thu Jan 21 16:02 CST 2010 [ RELATED]
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Keep the car! You love it and couldn't find anything better than your own baby. Go to the indy and have the seal replaced, the PVC cleaned and be done with it. You really want to keep the brick after all these years. I would.
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posted by
someone claiming to be dwight
on
Thu Jan 21 14:15 CST 2010 [ RELATED]
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I have the same problem with the same car except an NA engine with 135,000 mi. I may be leaking a bit less but without other problems I don't know that it is worth fixing until it gets much worse. Is yours a stick shift? I suppose it is possible for the oil eventually to get on the clutch and cause it to slip. However it seems the engineers knew this(the oil leak) was a likely problem and put a hole in the bottom of the transmission housing to allow the oil escape onto the ground. Also this repair is a very involved operation. Might the mechanic cause another problem while trying to fix this that you might not be aware of for some time. I may be a bit paranoid but I've had plenty of less than perfect repairs with even recommended mechanics. I'm going to wait on my repair. I did read on this or the matthews site that essentially all 850 engines sooner or later will develop this. One person reported that the "high mileage" version of a motor oil such as Castrol decreased his leak substantially. Good Luck
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posted by
someone claiming to be yct
on
Mon Jan 25 17:49 CST 2010 [ RELATED]
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The 1995 850 turbo sedans came with auto transmission only; hence, mine is automatic. I had asked at that time to order a stick shift one, but VCNA had responded that I would have to wait 2-2.5 years for a stick shift 850 turbo (which turned out to be true). Thank you.
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What is the root cause of the common RMS failure on our cars? Poor maintenance and pressure build up, manufacturing defect, other? This would determine how much to be concerned about a second failure.
As far as what to do, I would highly recommend the indy mechanic. I remember hearing the job is typically over $1000.
I had a '95 Turbo sedan and loved it. It had 180K mi when I sold it. I missed it so much I got a '98 S70T. I would get it repaired ASAP, and not put up with it spraying oil around. You'll enjoy it more and one less thing to think about.
Good luck.
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Try this stuff first:http://www.barsproducts.com/1050.htm
If that doesn't work, go with your indy mechanic guy.
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