Hi all,

I'm looking very seriously at a 1995 850 Turbo with 135,000 miles. It's one owner, always dealer-serviced, full maintenance with all records by someone who kept very good care of and garaged it. All electronics work, the A/C works (though the evaporator was never replaced), and it even comes with an entire matching spare wheel and tire in addition to the donut spare! Good options. The leather is obviously worn but not cracked or broken. Interior looks great even without a detailing (e.g. the labels on CC aren't worn at all, cupholders intact). Looks fairly clean under the hood for a car its age. Owner even has all the original keys (2 regular, 1 valet, 1 wallet, 2 remote keyless)

Now...here's what my mechanic found on inspection:
-Minor corrosion on positive battery contact (said they weren't concerned; battery new in 2008)
-Oil residue around turbo unit and a "bit of an oil smell" after road test, but turbo appears to be working fine (they didn't indicate any further concern)
-Rear brake pads thin, need replacing very soon
-Inner axle boots "flinging grease" (I was not entirely clear why this is an issue--they say probably not a big deal, but "makes a bit of a mess")
-Trans case has some sort of residue on the side--dry, no droplets. (They didn't seem too concerned; no issues found with trans itself and fluid looked fine.)
-Right front ball joint has vertical movement (needs replacement, $350)
-Upper radiator hose has "dry crusty residue running down to radiator tank" (they didn't indicate that this was worrisome or say what it might be)
-Slight noise from front struts (they say not too big a deal)
-Small crack on rear light casing (insignificant, easy to patch)
-On top of this, the next scheduled maintenance will include timing belt and water pump. (just based on mileage on the current parts. $700.)

The good from the mechanic: "brakes, accelerates, and steers well, and has good power overall. Turbo seems to work." Various other components not mentioned here were found to be in good condition (including the tires), and all fluids looked good (they were *not* recently changed, as I've been told to look out for).

My question is twofold:
1) Are any of the above problems more serious than my mechanic is making them out to be? Are there some that likely do not require further attention? I'm guessing from what I read on the boards that I can get everything significant taken care of for less than $2000 , but thought I'd ask and see if I'm reading anything wrong.

2) Does the overall condition of this car seem good? It does to me, again from what I read on the boards. Then again, if I were buying anything else, my standards would be very different!

Thanks in advance for any thoughts...

There is a 1999 S70 T5 with 180K, and a 1998 S70 GLT with a light pressure turbo, both within your target price. The 1999 is a little iffy, unless the ETM has been replaced with a newer unit.

Klaus
--
Common sense trumps a PhD

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/cto/1233628723.html
--
Common sense trumps a PhD

Jorscky,

I own a '95 850T Wagon. Purchased used in 2000 with 50,000 miles. Most of the problems and fixes listed here by other 850 owners, have happened to me. Have NEVER had serious mechanical issues, but plenty of the other stuff. I now live north of San Francisco (Yo, Kentfield!) and have only needed a mechanic (rear O2 sensor) once since 2004. I learned to fix many things on this car but I'm a bit of a DIY'er who likes to takes things apart. Bought a motorcycle and don't use the car as much. The current mileage is 160,000.

I want to focus on the MOST important items on your list and my experiences:

-Oil residue around turbo unit - I have the same greasy pipes but most of the mess is on the rubber and plastic hoses/parts. The turbo itself is fairy clean so I think that yours is probably ok. All my Volvo's (3) have been turbo and I've NEVER had a repair. As long as the oil was changed at required intervals, the turbo should still be strong.

-Inner axle boot "flinging grease" - This is a BIG deal! Flinging grease is a torn boot(s) and needs replacing ASAP. Your CV joints will dry out and dirt will enter. You will have to replace the drive/Axle shafts if allowed to remain in current condition.

-Right front ball joint-I HAVE NEVER HAD TO REPLACE ANY FRONT END COMPONENTS ON MY 850! Every new set of tires still wears the same. Did a four-wheel alignment a few years back. Still straight as an arrow. Probably not that pressing, but don't forget that it needs repairing.

-slight noise from front struts - if your mechanic knows that the sound is coming from a strut, then it's probably a upper spring seat. I had one failure on my 850 at about 125,000 miles. Remember to replace the spring seats in pairs. If you let it go, the noise will just get worse and worse. I replaced both struts on my car with the seats, but it wasn't necessary. If the anti-sway bar links are original, they might need replacing. When worn, they give a thud/clunk sound that was noticeable especially when I would come to a sudden stop.

-Timing belt/water pump - The belt intervals MUST be followed. No exceptions. At my 140,000 mile change, I had to replace the tensioner, but my water pump was still solid.

AC evaporator - had to replace mine and did all the labor myself over a Christmas vacation. Took me 3 days, but I had the luxury to take as long as needed. Had my mechanic charge the system and it's been holding fine ever since. Volvo updated the air intake with a hepa filter. You should check to see if this filter is in place. Maybe it was added when the update was first released and your AC evaporator didn't suffer much/any environmental erosion. So many issues with the 850 AC system. DO YOUR RESEARCH because it's not a cheap repair.

Radiator - had to replace in 2005 at 145,000. Ordered a Nisin from IPD and did the work myself. I also replaced every coolant hose, except the two that go through the firewall to the heater core. They are still holding fine.

Left front wheel bearing - replaced at 120,000. Mechanic repaired.

Dash lights and odometer - just yesterday, I completed repairs on the dash bulbs and the odometer gear. FYI....gear is the size of a pin head and 'only' cost $35 dollars at Marin Volvo!

Door stop - Had to replace the drivers side. This spring allows the door to stop at different angles as to not crush your leg or swing out into traffic. Did the repair myself. Cost at Marin Volvo $53.

Window guide/drivers - this felt lined groove/track holds the window solid when fully lowered. Did the work myself. Cost $73.

Heater core: Will need replacing before next winter.

Do the seats work in all positions? Both my seats need work on the recline function. Known problems with cables and gears.

All said, it's not the worst car I've ever owned. Not the cheapest but far from the most expensive. I can still fix things on the car, so I guess this is the reason I still own it.

If the price is good, sounds like a you could get a very nice 850.

dpsc
Kentfield, CA

Sounds like a good car.
You can easily clean the positive cable and remove all of the white powder. Vasoline can be used to coat the cable so it doesn't happen again.

The rear brakes are very easy for replacing pads, get OEM pads.

Which boots "fling" grease? The boots cannot be repaired, the axles need to be replaced, but still not a bad job.

Right front ball joint is an easy fix, but I suggest you do that in combination with fixing the noise from the struts. If you don't DIY, then expect a hefty bill, a front end alignment is required which costs us $100.

Timing belt is every 70K. Replace the water pump at 140K - only if it is weeping water or the shaft wobbles. The rollers will need to be replaced.

The turbos in the 850s all pass a little bit of oil, it is perfectly normal. The turbos typically last as long as the engine. But, the oil return line for the turbo tends to blow the seal. Replacement of seal is no big deal, tho the mechanic you used may charge a couple of hundred, he sounds expensive.

The evaporator replacement is over $2000, 10 hours of labor.
--
Common sense trumps a PhD

Re: which boots: CV boots

If the evaporator goes I will probably just let it be. They are only asking $3000 for the car (which, in light of everything I'll have to deal with *immediately* upon purchase, now sounds too high). I understand a couple of cans of refrigerant can be had for 20 or 30 bucks and can get you through a summer?

As for the seal, they did not see a leak. But I thought it was way more involved than just a couple hundred dollars to fix? I think I heard someone say it cost them six or seven hundred?? If it's that cheap I suppose I could just do it preventatively with all the rest.

I forgot to mention that the ABS is acting up too, but I'd definitely go with Victor for that which I understand is only 150.

$3K is a lot of money, but so is using a mechanic on an older car. Seriously, most of us DIY because of the $100/hr shop charge plus the builtin parts cost. If you do not DIY, buy a Ford or Chevy where you can find a good and cheap mechanic and the parts are plentiful.

Victor cannot fix the ABS module on this car, it does not need fixing. Usually it is just rust on the axles messing up the sensors.

The rear pads usually take me 30 minutes per side, but I am slow. I also replace the pins and spring clip.

I would negotiate the price downward with the inspection list shown to the seller. Even the dealer up here wouldn't charge $700 for a TB/water pump replacement, so deduct $400 from the price. Then look around for a better Volvo independent shop.

Klaus
--
Common sense trumps a PhD

Re: the ABS issue:

One other related point is that a dealer recently said that the car needed a new speed sensor when it was in for service. I mentioned this to an indy Volvo mechanic and they said the speed sensor issue and the ABS issue are probably one and the same, i.e. that same ABS issue is probably the reason it is throwing a code for the speed sensor. This sounds like good news to me (only one part needs replacing instead of two), but given that the advice from the dealer conflicts with what they are saying I'm not sure how to approach it.

I've gotten high quotes from the local dealer ($750 for part alone) to replace the ABS module. Independent shop was much better--$650 for part and labor. But I guess if it needs neither replacement nor rebuild that would be best of all!

The really nice part of a 1995 850 is that they have on-board diagnostic boxes which will pin point any problems.

If this were a 1996 or younger, I would say repair the ABS unit. 1993-5 ABS units are indestructable! If the speed sensor is bad, then replace it for less than $100, but let the car tell you what is wrong with it.

Did you offer $2K yet??

Klaus
--
Common sense trumps a PhD

Offered and countered. I think it will probably end up falling right at $2500. ??

One other thing that occurred to me: is it possible that the "front strut noise" my mechanic noted is actually just a symptom of the ball joint movement he found?

A remote possibility re strut.

Check your craigslist.org and look for Volvo 850, to get a comparison in pricing.

Klaus
--
Common sense trumps a PhD

Permit me to say a few things as an 850 T-5 (1994) owner (with about 115k kms on the odometer) who's done a fair bit of work on the car by myself and through mechanics:

1. The AC evaporator thing can be a big deal.

In fact, if the AC evaporator is bad, it's quite possible that the heater core (i.e., the 'evaporator' for heat that engine coolant passes through) could be about to go as well. I have had my car for nearly three years now and the AC started leaking about 2 years ago and became so bad recently that no gas recharging lasted more than a day. The heater core started leaking a month ago leading to gradual but significant coolant loss.

Thing is, lots of 850s had no cabin air pollen filters so loads of road dust get sucked into the ventilation system, accumulating on both the heater and AC cores, aiding the eventual damaging corrosion of both. Hence they can die a mutual death like Romeo and Juliet.

BTW, I got both fixed recently by an excellent mechanic here in Sydney Australia and it cost AU$1800+ The bulk of the cost is time - eight to eleven manhours to remove and replace the dash depending on which shop you ask, and anything from $1700 to $2500 for total cost depending on how pricey the shop is :-)

If you're a decent tree-shade mechanic who can spare the time and am up to the challenge of replacing the cores yourself, buy the parts from FCPGroton - note they only have the correct parts for LHD cars (use new seals please) and follow the unbelievably detailed step-by-step illustrated guide here:

http://www.woodjoiner.com/volvo/

*But, you did say the A/C works.

2. The quote of $700 for timing belt and water pump replacement is on the VERY high side if you ask me.

3. Right front ball joint replacement - this is easy to DIY. $350 will be way more than enough to buy TWO control arms with attached ball joint (I paid $110 for a pair of German Meyle HDs off Ebay US). It will take you no more than 2 hours to change out the old ones (your mechanic should take no more than one hour to do one). A wheel alignment is necessary and will cost you some money. Check the integrity of the steering tie rods whilst you're at it.

4. At 135K miles, the front shocks and springs are likely on their way out if they are originals. At 115K kms, my car became naturally 'lowered' on the old springs and the shocks had hardly any give - the handling was good though ;-)

That noise you hear could be a worn strut mount - a common problem with these cars (does the sound come from the top part of the firewall?) If yes, the whole strut needs to come off for the mount to be replaced. That or it's just a worn sway bar end link (another common issue) - these are cheap to replace and easy to DIY.

I'd prepare to spend money on new shocks, springs and shock mounts within the next 20,000kms. Try not to save money by just doing the shocks. It's not worth it. Do springs, shocks and mounts all at one hit. Guess how I know.

5. Brake pads and rotors, and piston boots are affordable and easy to DIY as long as the pistons are not seized. Lots of mechanics charge too much for doing brakes.

6. Turbo seal oil leak - not hard to DIY.

7. Other common problems that can be DIY fixed:

- Driver's door hinge tend to break their welds (not too hard to DIY fix without welding)
- Climate control blower fan speed controller/resistor amplifier stage burns out
- Blower fan gets squeaky - my current intermittent problem (easy to DIY replace)
- Electrics can suddenly 'blackout' ;-) - my guess is that this is related to the blower fan amplifier since it's gone away ever since I replaced the part.
- ABS or ABS/Traction computer tend to give out (not hard to rebuild)
- Worn turbo intercooler hoses (this is very common but easy to replace - use silicone ones for best results)
- Worn or broken upper and lower engine stabiliser mount bushings including the firewall mount - most are easily replaced. Try not to overdo it with polyurethane ones unless you like to feel the engine vibrations a lot ;-)
- Cracked radiator - not hard or expensive to replace, just time consuming

8. Common problems with 850s that CANNOT be easily DIY fixed (avoid buying cars with these issues):

- Rear engine main seal leak (caused by choked flame trap and/or oil trap)
- Bad auto trans (common problem in both turbos and normally aspirated 850s due to a lack of ATF fluid change).

Checkout this 850 dedicated site for more info on assorted common problems and repairs:

http://au.geocities.com/ozbrick850/

Hope this helps

I don't know what these cars go for in the US so I can't suggest anything about whether it's a good deal or not.

Lucast

Thanks for all the fantastic advice. I would love to be able to DIY on my car (whatever it ends up being), but I totally lack the necessary tools and expertise. I'm sure the myriad guides on the internet would go a long way to helping with the latter, but I fear that the cost of acquiring all the tools and the time it would take to learn everything would nearly cancel out the savings on parts and labor. If I anticipated having more than one car over which to average these costs, it might be one thing, but this would be my only one.

I'm not giving up on this car yet, though! I think I'll have to see how flexible the price is before going any further. Thanks again!

Sears has sales twice a year on Craftsman tools. I first bought a set of metric wrenches, then a socket set, a few good screw drivers, a folding torx driver for $5, a good floor jack with 2 jack stands, an oil drain container, and finally a torque wrench. Now I can do most of the basic stuff.

Dealer wants close to $900 to replace all brake pads and front rotors. DIY and you have paid for all of the above tools with money left over.

I bought a strut spring compressor for close to $60. The local mechanic wanted almost $1000 to do the job. I got Koni Sport struts, new strut hardware, and an alignment for an additional $100 - Total cost to me, under $500. And I know it is done correctly.

Klaus
--
Common sense trumps a PhD

Just to add to this:

The first 850 I had ever driven was a loaner wagon from a good friend. After about 8 months of driving it, I wanted to repay the generosity of the loan by getting the car 'done up' before returning it which involved putting in new brake pads and rotors. The specialist 'Euro' shop that I went to charged me over AU$700 for grinding the worn rotor lips flat (i.e., they reused the old rotors - not a problem if the thickness is still within spec but the point is I still wasn't getting new ones) and putting on new pads. Labour cost is indeed expensive in Australia but this was really poor value.

I vowed after that experience that I will always do the brakes myself. It costs less than AU$350 in total for 4 new rotors and 2 sets of decent Bendix brake pads. 2 hours of work without the aid power tools will suffice - I work slow.

Things like basic oil and filter changes, coolant renewals, ATF changes are all easily DIYable.

Look, I am still a beginner in car maintenance and repairs. But with some commonsense and research on the web, I have found that it's not hard to maintain these cars. I mean one's not going to be able to do all repairs, but the common stuff is pretty straightforward.

lucast - all good points, although I have to say that, if anything, it's messy tasks like changing fluids that I'd probably rather leave to someone else, just to avoid the mess, hazmat disposal, etc. I'd hope to add belts, lights, and most of the interior trim/electronics to the list too.

Of course, even doing all one's own "minor" maintenance stuff, one can still get killed by big-ticket repairs. If I could handle THAT sort of stuff, I'd feel much better about cars this old!

Thanks for the advice. Turns out Father's Day is a good time to buy tools! I had a look at Sears and it looks like everything you mentioned can be had for between $100 and $150. Many socket sets are half off right now.