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HI all:
I am a 240 guy concidering a used '96 850 20valve manual trans.
I do not know anything about Volvo FWD 850 and beyond. While the car appears to be in fair condition is does have some valve tap and I am told losses 1/2 qt of oil in less than 500 miles.
Is this an indication of a big problem to come and are there any other issues of concern like the brakes, etc.?
Thanks
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posted by
someone claiming to be fixit2003
on
Mon Dec 3 02:11 CST 2007 [ RELATED]
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A quart every 500 miles is a little high although I've read that some dealers, not neccessarily Volvo, say it's still OK. Developing valve noise is not uncommon on the 850's from what I've read here but combined with the high oil usage could indicate a marginally maintained engine. Loosen the oil cap while running to see if there's any excessive internal engine pressure. The cap should stay flat and not bounce around. A bouncing cap usually indicates the pollution control system needs a good cleaning.
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You really need to have a Volvo mechanic check it out. Pulling the head is not an easy operation. Normally, the 5 cyl engine is very reliable so long as the PVC system is kept clean, and the 5 speed tranny is great.
Are there any visible leaks of oil? Check the rear main seal, also a bear to fix.
850's are notorious for evaporator leaks, so check if the evap has ever been replaced or the AC blows ice cold.
Service records are key.
Klaus
--
The 164 has a new home, all I am left with are a 95 854T and a 98 V70R :)
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Thanks Klaus:
The evaporator is toast and I understand it is very difficult and expensive to repair. The clutch was replaced at 105K which to me indicates a poor use of the clutch.
Front brakes are relatively new but rears are scored and need replacement.
I was concerned as to the viability of the 20 valve engine. The oil consumption may be leaks as the original owner notes no blue smoke or oily smell. Is the PVC system in the 850 similar to the B230 with the oil accumulator and flame trap?
It appears that this engine is more difficult to work on than the B230, but perhaps can be managed. I am not an expert but have changed timing blets, fuel parts, (sending units/pumps/lines) etc. brakes, calipers, rotors, etc. water pumps, and the basic electrical trouble shooting and repair. Do you feel that the 20v 850 would be a big step up for me to handle?
Does the engine have to be pulled to repair the seals (main etc.) and the evaporator?
Thanks --- I have read your expert posts on the 200 RWD board as well.
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Fixing the evaporator on the 850 is like the heater core on the 240s, the entire dash needs to be removed. The dealer charges 10 hours of labor.
The rear main seal requires the tranny to be dropped, of course, along with the left hand suspension bits and is quite a challenge.
There is a PVC up near the throttle body which needs to be kept clean and the oil separator is under the intake manifold, a 5 hour DIY. The serpentine belt is a 30 minute job, the timing belt is a little harder but not THAT hard. The brakes are easy.
I agree about the clutch, it should last for 200K. I wonder if they had the RMS replaced at the same time.
Still, have the car checked at a good shop or even a dealer for $150, it is well worth the cost before or even after you buy it. These engines are normally very good, so long as it has never been overheated.
The only thing I don't like about 1996+ 850s is the OBDII scanner. It will only check the engine and tranny. Of course, most auto parts stores will let you borrow one for free.
Klaus
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The 164 has a new home, all I am left with are a 95 854T and a 98 V70R :)
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I don't have my owners manual in front of me, but I'd recommend taking a look in there. It says something to the effect of "When starting in cold weather, drive the car immediately in a gentle manner to warm it up."
If you follow the advice in the owners manual, I'd bet that the car would warm up just about the same as it does in warmer weather. By the same token, if you started the car in warmer weather and just left in idling in the garage, it'd probably take about as long to warm up as it currently is.
Do you have heated seats? They're pretty good for taking the chill off, and they don't burn any extra gas.
Kind regards,
Jon McKeon
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yes, i hear it is much worse to let the car idle to warm up. Drive it, but do it gently until heated up.
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The shredded boot? Can you tell if there is any sort of ps fluid coming out or do have to replace the fluid often? If not then I'd try and clean it up and just replace the tierods with new boots. Getting the tie rods off without a tool means you'll have to replace them which is what your going to do anyways. The ball joint not sure, I did mine when I replaced the struts so I'm not sure about what it would take with the strut assembly on the car. Those things are pretty straight forward. The cam seal I've never done before.
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Klaus:
Thanks for your most valued input.
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Yes, the PCV system in the 850 is similar to the B230 (flame trap and accumulator). The 20V is a different beast, but if you can do all those things to a 240, you shouldn't have any trouble with an 850. IMO, many things are easier to deal with than the 240. The rear brake calipers are the same as on a 240.
There are many obvious differences between the 850 engine and the older "red block" engines. Not so obvious is that these newer engines require maintenance and care where the B230 could be abused for years and show little signs of it.
The car you are describing sounds as though it has seen little of the care and attention needed to keep things like high oil consumption from occuring. Sounds like you should be able to get the 850 in question for not much money because of all the work it needs and the uncertainties involved with the engine noise and oil consumption. So it may be a great deal. On the other hand, it may be worth it to wait for a better maintained car to come along.
-Will
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850 / Mini
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Will:
Thanks for the update and information. This car is an 844 with leather, the tires are shot but the body and interior are fine with normal wear and tear.
With the evap and rear brakes and oil consumption taken into consideration my best guess would be that it is worth (private sale) $155-1600)? Is this OK or too high as I believe that the A/C is a near $2K fix, new tires, $500, oil seals and pcv repair ~$500, and rear brakes assuming no newe calipers but new rotors and pads, ~$350.
What do you think it should go for?
Thanks
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The basic car, engine and transmission are great. The big thing is maintenance. Oil leaks can be expensive to fix because of labor. Some are easily fixed. Valve noise can be a number of things including a gunked up engine or a couple of O rings needing replacement in the oil pan. Best bet is to get a good mechanic who knows Volvo's to check it out.
dick
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