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Do the S series Volvos (40,60,70,80) have zero-tolerance engines, i.e. if the timing belt breaks the pushrods can get bent? My daughter had a Mitsubishi Eclipse that needed $1600 of engine work done on it when the belt broke. I'd like to avoid engine types that suffer from the same potential issue.
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If you look in your maintenance manual (at least for our 850s) ALL maintenance items are specified for mileage AND TIME. In the case of 850s, the timing belt must be replaced at 70,000 miles or 84 MONTHS.
I bought a '95 854 base model that was 6-1/2 years old with 49,000 miles on it.
After 6 months, I changed the TB for piece of mind.
This issue has been discussed on volvospeed many times.
--
'96 855R,'64 PV544, '67 P1800, '95 855, '95 854, the first three are mine, heh, heh, 405,000 miles put on 8 bricks
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Your definition ("...i.e. if the timing belt breaks the pushrods can get bent?...") is for 'non-interference' engines.
And unfortunately, the last Volvo non-interference engine was the "red block" (B21, B23 and B230 -- with the short-lived, 4-valve/cyl., B2304 variant as the only exception of the run). If the timing belt broke, the engine just spun down harmlessly as you coasted to a halt.
Nowadays, not only Volvo but almost all other makers have interference engines, causing costly damage when the pistons and valves are no longer locked in a synchronous ballet.
However, most makers also prescribe replacement intervals for their belts (or more commonly and reliably, oil-bathed chains) that ensures their replacement long before they're likely to come apart.
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The Volvo "white motor" alloy-block engines are interference motors and the valves will collide with the pistons if the belt breaks. That's everything they've sold in the US since 1996, all of the 850s, S-V-C-70s, S-V 40s, 960s S-V 90s, V50s, S60s, S80s, XC70s, XC90s etc. etc etc..
Almost every modern passenger car engine is now an interference motor.
About your only choices are:
1.) Buy a "red motor", cast-iron block non-interference Volvo (except the 16-valve red motor sometimes found in the 740, which WAS an interference motor!) which would mean the most modern Volvo you could buy would be a 1995 940.
2.) Buy something with a timing chain like a BMW or a 4-cylinder Honda.
or...
3) Make SURE your timing belt (and tensioner, and rollers) are all changed on time!
It's tough, but 'tis the price we must pay to protect the snail-darters! Your daughter needs to learn to change her timing belt before it breaks. It's cheaper that way. The required maintenance intervals are usually listed in a car's owner's manual.
BTW, pushrods went out with the OHV V8 and the "red motor" Volvos around 1995.
-BTC
'98 V70 T5 5-speed, 167,000 mi, velour cloth seats, front IPD stabilizer bar, rear factory HD bar, Bilstein HD, Volvo strut tower brace and skidplate, e-codes, XC grill, Lidatek LE30, V-1, Mobil-1 since new
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." -- Douglas Noel Adams (1952-2001)
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Minor point: I don't know about V8s but you can still get a push rod V6 in the base engine for Taurus - or at least you could till they dropped the line this year. The 3.0 V6 in that car is the same block and head as when it first came out, I think. I had a 1990, a 1995 and now have a 2002. Same engine design except for some minor tweaks. Way off topic now but I never had a significant problem with any of those cars.
I agree with the general thread however. Interference design or not, regular maintenance is the key to longevity if the base design is half decent.
Bill
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hmm if a timing chain stretches you get 'interference' too...ask a mitsubishi owner who its happened too....and chains are normally FAR more expensive to change - and often have achange interval not far exceeding a belt...if the chain stretches/skips bang goes your engine!
ask me why i know this....no dont i might tell you!
i have also seen refernce to the red block not being truely non interfence...it genraly is, but (alledgely) if you get one with all the componants at the opposite ends of the allowed varriences...apparently it may not be! I c=dotn know enough to comment other than various (perhaps urban myths) i have seen to this effect....
IMHO interfernece is ONLY bad if you neglect the maintenace....and drinving a volvo is a bad idea if you plan on doing that anyway!
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In theory the timing chain lasts as long as the motor.
Back in the real world in which we all have to live, Saturn used a plastic gear on their timing chain, and Saab used a plastic guide on their chain that would break usually after the warranty but before 100,000 miles, and well, there is such a thing as a badly designed timing chain. But my '83 pre-plastic Saab made it to nearly 300,000 miles as the rest of the car decayed around the motor and timing chain.
I've heard about high compression red motors (besides the 16-valve) being interference but apparently our gasoline in the US is such that Volvo didn't send us their ultra-high compression red motor. I've not heard of bent valves on one, and I've been hanging around the Volvo sites a lot, since my "Volvo for life" is almost 9 years old now.
-BTC
'98 V70 T5 5-speed, 167k mi, velour cloth seats, front IPD stabilizer bar, rear factory HD bar, Bilstein HD, Volvo strut tower brace and skidplate, e-codes, XC grill, Lidatek LE30, V-1, Mobil-1 since new
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." -- Douglas Noel Adams (1952-2001)
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While you're at it, don't forget the single row timing chain in the early 80s Mercedes V8s. Or the Nissan V8 in the Q45 with the delicate guides. Or the Ford/Yamaha V8 with the cam sprockets that aren't securely attached to the cams.
A well designed timing chain setup is, IMO, superior to a timing belt. But it's possible to make a reasonable timing belt setup (intereference motor or not). Generally belts are cheaper and quieter.
The timing chain on your Saab may have lasted forever and ever, however the 80s Saabs (the 16V at least) were known for timing chain issues. Certainly that reputation wasn't helped by the timing chain being up against the firewall.
--
alex
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mitsubishi deisels ahve a 100k change on the timing chain....many 1994 2.8's need it at 50-80k.....i know i have one! (55k and still ok i hope!)
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Yes, all of the so-called fwd "white engines" (as opposed to the rwd red engines) have interference engines. If the belt breaks, be ready to buy a new engine, rebuild it or sell the car, mostly as a parts vehicle. It is very important that the Timing Belt is replaced on time, and on every other change, to also replace the tensioner and pulley. Hope this helps. Sorry to hear about your mishap with the Eclipse.
--
1998 S70 T5 Emarald Green Metallic, 2004 V70 2.5T Ruby Red, Previous Owner of Black '94 850 Turbo Wagon. My cars have been running so well lately they've got me worried.
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So as a stipulation in buying a used Volvo from a dealer, I should insist that the belt and tensioner and pullys be replaced no matter how few miles are on the car?
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I don't know it that should be a stipulation...depends on the miles on the car (close to or over 70K mile interval?). This is not a difficult thing to do on these cars at all and not very expensive either....unless you have the DEALER do it. You can check out www.fcpgroton.com to see which parts and at what the prices are for thes parts, for the most common issues. For parts and labor, the TB should be less than $300 (total- including ALL parts and labor) at an independent mechanic, and like I say, it's really a quite simple job. Of course, if the TB hasn't been change and the car is beyond the 70K mile interval, I would demand it be done. Look under the hood on the passenger side (usually on the ECU case lid or TB cover), you'll usually see a sticker indicating the miles at which the TB was replaced.
More of a concern would be the A/C which are prone to be broken on these cars...and if the evaporator core of the A/C is broken, you are looking at least $1200 for replacement as the entire dash has to come out of the car. So, make sure the A/C is blowing cold air. Also, check the transmission dip stick to make sure it's not brown or burnt smelling. If it is bad, there are no real re-builds...so you're looking at a swap which could be $2-3K. Other than these, the typical maitenance items, such as front end suspension parts (shocks/struts, mounts), brakes, etc. Also, the ABS system is prone to go bad, but this is also a cheap fix (around $150 for a rebuild from a guy who is very reputable and often posts here).
Getting back to the TB issue. If the miles are close to the 70K mile interval, inquire about it. It is however, not much of a bargaining chip unless the one selling the car is ignorant about these things.
Good luck and let us know what you decide. These are good solid cars which you should be able to drive for virtually forever if previous maintenance (oil changes at 3-5K miles, tranny fluid flushes at 30-40K miles, etc.) has been done and you're willing to continue them.
--
1998 S70 T5 Emarald Green Metallic, 2004 V70 2.5T Ruby Red, Previous Owner of Black '94 850 Turbo Wagon. My cars have been running so well lately they've got me worried.
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Thanks everyone, I appreciate all the good information you've provided.
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