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Ok, I know its illegal in the USA, but here in South America it is not.
My S70R cat has a hole and dealer says I can replace it with a direct flow resonator.
What are the pros and cons in terms of performance, fuel economy and engine longevity
Thanks for your answers
--
1999 Volvo S70R
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Okay Y'all,
For all of you with your political ramblings, this is the wrong forum.
The reality of the situation is that replacing the cat with a straight pipe on that car is an unknown.
Back in the 80's with 240's and 740's, cat's were just a way to further clean up an already clean running brick. No up or downstream o2 sensors, no engine trully built around a fine line of performance, economy and emmissions.
This is a right or wrong scenario here. What's right is replacing that cat with the proper part, and keeping your brick the way that the savvy Swedish designers meant it to be. The wrong way is putting in a straight pipe and delving into the unknown.
When it comes to my daily driver... I HATE unknowns.
--
Happy Bricking!!! - Richard - '95 855T 335k, '82 242 GLT 121k
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Come on guys, give me a break!
Just wanted a technical opinion here, lets cut all the political, enviromental and sentimental issues.
Here in PERU, South America.
You wouldnt believe all the children that got sick every year due to massive use of american pesticides by the DEA harming our enviroment, killing either legal and illegal cultives.
You wouldnt believe the polution and enviromental damage of OUR enviroment that American Mining companies do, using precious metal extraction methods that they wouldnt be able to perform in the USA, Without the possibility of impossing fines or take to trial to these people because we cannot afford an economic sanction from you.
Etc, etc, etc....So dont give me the "DON’T ENDANGER MY TWO YEAR OLD" kind of crap.
Dont get me wrong here, I believe America is a great country, I got my Degree there and travel every year with my family for vacations.
The reason of my post is that I dont want to spend US$ 1,500.00 (Dealer Price)for an S70R exhaust pipe, although it is a unique machine I have my priorities, and if this is NOT illegal, I will go ahead and do it, but after I mail order an O2 Simulator from someone in the USA.
Thanks for all the technical answers recieved.
God bless America
--
1999 Volvo S70R
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posted by
someone claiming to be Give us a break
on
Wed Feb 1 16:33 CST 2006 [ RELATED]
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Did I miss something? You say "... lets cut all the political, enviromental and sentimental issues" and then write:
[You wouldnt believe all the children that got sick every year due to massive use of american pesticides by the DEA harming our enviroment, killing either legal and illegal cultives.
You wouldnt believe the polution and enviromental damage of OUR enviroment that American Mining companies do,]
If this isn't whining about political and enviornmental issues, what is it?
Give us a break!!
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Yes "Give us a Break"
You missed to read all the previous posts before submitting your message.
Now tell us...
Whats your experience after you de-cat your Volvo?
--
1999 Volvo S70R
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my experience after de-catting my 940t (temporarily) was it went better, drank less and generally gained a few horses....but then agai nthe cat was stuffed due to having being soaked in oil the engine was burning....
butthat was a red block and a very differnt beast....still passed emmisions test even without a cat though i have to say...
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Import duties are that high? Amazing.
Sponsored Links
Check Engine Light
Free S&H Pass emissions without cat
Works on all 1996+ autos
www.O2SensorSimulator.com
Oxygen Sensor Simulator
For Import or Domestic cars
Only 25$. Proven. Support forum
www.o2sim.com
Got this off of Google for a start.
Klaus
--
(V♂LV♂s 1975 164, 1995 854T, 1998 V70R)
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Thanks Klaus
Import duties + shipping charges could triplicate the price of some items.
Luckily An O2 simulator is inexpensive, so I could expect a final cost of around $100.00
The only concern I have is that the second or "rear" sensor is located IN the cat and not AFTER the cat as everyone says.
Hope it works without damaging my fuel mixture, I will keep you updated.
--
1999 Volvo S70R
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posted by
someone claiming to be SOMEONE WHO KNOWS and has a conscience
on
Mon Jan 30 03:15 CST 2006 [ RELATED]
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Some of you are really something. You either get it or you don't. I am done with this nonsense.
By the way, I drive a Volvo because the company in general is one of the cleanest (life cycle analysis) and the car is the safest in the world. I drive carefully and get 24.5 MPG overall. Pretty good, plus a clean and safe car.
"Glad to Live in VA," I agree with you on gun control. We have right to carry here also.
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nah not getting away with that...
maybe used to be the safest but not doing so well now in the safety ratings...
quote your sources!
24.5mpg..you could double that one a Japanese mini box...and the safety ratings are almost as good (if not better - depending on the brick you drive)...
sorry man but im calling you on this...
not that i disagree i also drive a brick because i consider them safe, reliable and having a low environmental iompact due to the long lifecycle but i dont PRETEND they are fuel efficient...
now to back up my statement volvo s60: 4 stars (and pray you kiddie doesnt get run over by one!)2.4 geartronic 25mpg (manufacturers official data)
http://www.euroncap.com/content/safety_ratings/details.php?id1=3&id2=103
honda jazz 5 stars - still not good to be hit by it, but better,.....1.4 hdsi 48mpg...
http://www.euroncap.com/content/safety_ratings/details.php?id1=1&id2=188
I couldnt find any independant and peer reviewed comparative figures for life-cycle impact on the web (even tried greenpeaces site)- if you know of a source please post I - and I am sure others would be most interested..
so safe, well yes...but not outstandingly so and if its more than 3 years old probably not as safe as new smaller cars...clean...NO car is environmentally clean, a bigger heavier car is less so... 24mpg SUCKS in the modern world....if your talking about life cycle ploution your talking about running it till it DIES ...and old cars polute more, they get inefficient....
As i say i drive a brick, i maintain it well, i ACCEPT its not very green but i like it...I dont pretend it is...oh and yes my cat is still firmly in place...and will be replaced if it dies...even if disposal/production is an environmental nightmare!
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Just about the "safest" short of an up-armored Humvee would be the Chevrolet Silverado 3500.
http://www.iihs.org/brochures/ictl/ictl.html
No Volvo even comes close.
The S40 can't do much better than he Mazda-3 and the Ford Focus, since it's built on the same platform. Not unless Volvo managed to repeal of the laws of physics.
Believe whatever you want, but Volvos don't lead to immortality. (The XC90 rates "OK" but it weighs in at 4,610 lb. before passengers, etc. etc.)
I drive mine 'cause I like the seats.
-BTC
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posted by
someone claiming to be SOMEONE WHO KNOWS and has a conscience
on
Fri Jan 27 02:28 CST 2006 [ RELATED]
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First, I did miss his first line that said he was from Peru. OK, no Federal offense for him.
Next, I am not a tree hugger. I hunt, fish, belong to the NRA, and did not vote for Al Gore. I actually do not like Diane Feinstein or Barbara Boxer. Nor am I an environmental nut. I do not live in LA.
What I am? I have a degree in Chemical Engineering, and am a licensed Professional Engineer. I have worked in the power plant, petrochemical refinery, and transportation (specifically automobiles, trucks and buses) industry for over 30 years. I have designed and installed their processes and designed and installed the systems to clean their effluent streams. I also have four family members who are doctors or nurses. Perhaps more importantly, I have four close friends and one relative who either have died or are dying of lung or throat cancer. They were active individuals who never smoked a day in their lives. Studies show conclusively that pollution is primarily responsible for such cases. I know many others with similar connections. We moved to where we are now to escape the pollution that killed those I care about, and so our baby would not have to go through what the 4 year old next door to us when we lived in Texas did.
So, excuse me for being so passionate about such a prevalent killer as air pollution. I just hope that the information I’ve provided will prevent some people from removing their cat. To those who don’t care, you are part of the problem.
I repeat: DON’T ENDANGER MY TWO YEAR OLD BECAUSE YOU WANT TO SAVE A FEW HUNDRED DOLLARS.
I DO take it personally if someone knowingly does so.
NOTE: KlausC, you are not correct. People do not live 20 years longer than they did in the 60's, though here in the US we do like a couple of years longer, primarily through advancements in medicine. But people in some other countries, most of them very polluted, actually live less. Also, one of the primary reasons that cars are 95% cleaner than they were is specifically because of the catalytic converter. And most catalytic converters are recycled, the precious metals in them are worth money. While you are right that a hotter engine creates more Nox, the engines are not made to run any hotter to accommodate this, they are hot enough already. If the cat can not be placed to take advantage of the engine heat, then a supplemental cat heater is installed.
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ok so what are you doing driving a volvo???
If you drove (for example) a Nissan micra you would get at LEAST double the gas milage of any volvo thus polute half as a much - by your logic YOU are the problem becasue your driving a volvo!
Your long on 'Studies show conclusively' nad you claim to have adegree in chemisty - as a man of SCIENCE i would expoect you to employ excepted scientific practice of accepting that all imperical studies can lead one towards a conclusions but never 'conclusively show' - cause and effect and all that jazz....not to mention the factors the study DOESNT take into account...
I think your own evidence 'conclusively shows' that if you dont smoke you will get throat/lung cancer (after all all four didnt and they all got it!)!
if you goign to quote 'studies' for peer review at least name them...
I think the question of recycling of cats is valid - mainly becuase they are full of heavy metals.....
ENGINES DO RUN HOTTER TO MAKE USE OF CATS its a fact most cars equiped with cats have engine management systems DESIGNED to make them run hotter when first started to get the cat up to operating termperature quicker...also they tend to be manged to run lean to maximise burn....(of course as the lambdasond sensors age this becomes a moot point!
I anint disagreeing with you the in general a cat equiped car is a cleaner beast than a 'non cat' car....but your tone is combatative, the arguements only partialy formed and you certianly need to learn you catch more flies wiht honey than vinegar!
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I know this subject should be in the "opinion" section of this board, but...
Was lead taken out of gasoline because it is harmful, or because it destroyed the cat? Chicken and egg question. Diesel fuel doesn't have to belch out particulates, it's just cheaper to make it that way. Why don't we rely on corn/soy oil to run in diesel engines, because ADM has no profit unless it makes ethanol out of it first?
Here in Minnesota, farmers are running their diesel engines on 50/50 corn/fuel mix with no problems and no more black smoke. Dr. Diesel invented his engine so it would run on pure peanut oil. No profit for the oil companies if we stopped using oil as a fuel.
When all planes were barred from flying after 9/11/01, did any of you notice how blue the sky became? That wasn't because we stopped driving, we actually drove more.
I agree, we pollute our air and water too much. Big business and government don't really care about us. Our expected demise in 1939 was 65.5 years and now it is 84 years of age. Some of us stopped smoking, but we still burn wood in our fire places and get smoke inside our houses. Our streams are filthy with overpopulated sewage treatment facilities and fertilizer runoff, mercury levels are up along with a host of other heavy metals. Still, we live longer?
As for us shade tree mechanics, we are doing our part by keeping older cars running and keeping them out of land fills. We keep our cars tuned so they pollute as little as possible, less polution equates to better gas milage which means less oil consumed (barring RMS leaks!). Volvo lovers are mostly liberal in nature, judging from the bumper stickers. Yet, we also are very conservative when it comes to "jumping on the band wagon" de jour.
People who fix their own cars don't rip off their cat converters, because they hate others. They are usually people who have gone to Mexico and filled up with leaded gas, because that is all there is. The short term fix is to remove the cat, install a "test pipe", re-tune the engine, and drive home. For those who live in test free states, there is no incentive to reinstall a new cat unless you are intending to sell the car. My 30 year old 164 never had a cat, should the car be junked? Your neighbors probably drive pickup trucks to do errands, really bad for our environment.
BTW, why does the NRA support hand guns? All hand guns are good for is killing people. Just think how many drive-by shootings would be eliminated if all guns were required to be bolt action, single shot. I love to hunt, too, but if I can't hit what I am shooting at with my shotgun (double barrel, single choke), then it gets away. Then I have to hunt some more. Hunting is not about shooting a rifle, it is about the hunt.
Klaus
--
(V♂LV♂s 1975 164, 1995 854T, 1998 V70R)
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posted by
someone claiming to be Glad to live in Va
on
Fri Jan 27 10:54 CST 2006 [ RELATED]
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[All hand guns are good for is killing people.]
Sorry Klaus, a hand gun is like any gun. Simply a machine desigined to fire a projectile, that's it. Drive by shooting are caused by a human problem called SIN. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Thankfully in VA, if one has a clean background and can demonstrate competence with the weapon, the judge must grant one a conceled carry permit and allow you to exercise your second amendment rights. If I'm confronted with a gang of punks, I'm glad to have my omnipresent 9 mm in my hand (have another in the console of our 850 and it fits nice!). Some would rather have have a 911 operator on the phone. The NRA is looking out for you. Gun control isn't about guns, it's about control. If the gov't can deny you the right to own a gun, they can deny you the right to buy a newspaper.
Glad to live in Va
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When I was in high school in the 60's, we never heard about "drive by shootings". The meanest weapon was a switch blade. Guns were expensive and hard to get.
Today, guns are cheaper than switch blades and much easier to use. Any 10 year old can use one, and a car full of teenagers with guns is no different than insurgents in Iraq. They can't aim worth shit, but so what? A dozen bullets in 5 seconds from one gun makes up for the aiming. Besides, someone trying to hold me up with a gun will get my wallet every time, a knife gives me better odds.
--
(V♂LV♂s 1975 164, 1995 854T, 1998 V70R)
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posted by
someone claiming to be Another VA boy
on
Mon Jan 30 10:11 CST 2006 [ RELATED]
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When I was a kid in HS in the 60's, seniors were allowed to bring their shotguns to school (on the bus) to go hunting after school. We dropped them off in the principals office. The same principal used to whip butts with a huge paddle if you sassed a teacher or whatever. It never crossed anyones mind to shoot him. So what's changed? Liberal thinkers (what an oxymoron) that blame everything except the individual and throw in red herrings like the NRA, handguns, social failures (the government didn't give the poor guy enough handouts), ad nauseum. You can take your chances with some punk with a switchblade in a dark parking lot if you want. OBTW, AAA encourages auto ownership and drunk drives of autos kill and mutilate 1000's yearly. Sooooo, we all need hand in our membership and boycot the SOB's, right? Or maybe Ford is responsible as they made the car the drunk was driving...or maybe it is Pete Coors or Jack Daniels (they held the drunk down and poured it down his throat)...or maybe the state... after all, they built the road the drunk was driving on...or maybe the dead person...they shouldn't have been driving at that time...or we could blame the drunk and hold him responsible but then we have to listen to the liberal whiners. How about banning booze to cure the problem? Sounds good to me.
Another VA boy.
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Chicago had a gun turn in day a few years back. I forgot what the incentive was. But one of the "guns" was an M79 granade launcher, rigged with a semiautomatic round clip that could hold 12 granades! One hell of a hunting weapon!
What I really hate about guns, are the semi automatic aspects of them. That is not needed by hunters, good ones anyway. The problem is that all pistols are semi automatic, and a pistol is not a hunting tool. These things need to be kept out of non-responsible hands, whoever they happen to be. This includes adults as well as children.
I don't blame the govenment or our schools for the mess we are in. Common sense is no longer taught at home, and that reflects directly on our entire society. No one is accountable anymore. Especially parents and politicians.
Klaus
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(V♂LV♂s 1975 164, 1995 854T, 1998 V70R)
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posted by
someone claiming to be volvobob
on
Fri Jan 27 02:59 CST 2006 [ RELATED]
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Sorry to hear about your troubles but air pollution doesn't cause that type of damage dispite popular myth. Odds are more genetic or you have such an energy efficent house no fresh air gets in and indoor pollution a bigger issue. Or how often have you changed the house's AC filters?
Easy to blame others and their cars. But they aren't the biggest problem.
Try a diesel - they may smell but the larger exhaust particles don't have the same issues.
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posted by
someone claiming to be SOMEONE WHO KNOWS and has a conscience
on
Fri Jan 27 03:46 CST 2006 [ RELATED]
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Diesel exhaust contains far more carcinogenic materials than gasoline exhaust. The particulates you mentioned do much damage. The carcinogenic compounds are adsorbed onto the particles, then slowly desorb over time leading to cancer. There is mountains of data on this fact. The good thing is that recirculation systems and the new catalytic converters and particulate traps that are coming out soon will eleviate the PM concerns. Diesel may become the way to go for fuel economy considerations (like in Europe). You are also incorrect, in that motor vehicles account for the majority of air pollution in many our major cities. And studies, some done by the auto indusrty themselves, show direct correlations to many of the cancer cases for non smokers. I do not want to be cruel about this, but most of you guys are in over your heads on this air pollution issue. There are many issues and technologies that I would defer to most others on, the mechanics of volvos probably being one, but this issue is most likely not one of them. Please do some research and at least consider the issues. I understand someone having a contrary view when they do not have the data. If you see what I have in 30+ years (it has been part of my job), I believe you'd agree.
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My question is similar to Klaus'. Don't know about the 02 sensors, but I would be concerned that the ECU wouldn't work properly with the CAT out which will have an effect on the engine management system and drivability.
--
1998 S70 T5 Emarald Green Metallic, 2004 V70 2.5T Ruby Red, Previous Owner of Black '94 850 Turbo Wagon. My cars have been running so well lately they've got me worried.
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posted by
someone claiming to be SOMEONE WHO KNOWS and has a conscience
on
Thu Jan 26 09:57 CST 2006 [ RELATED]
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First, it is illegal to remove or otherwise tamper with a catalytic converter. It is a Federal offense punishable with a $35,000 fine.
Second, it is an environmentally unconscionable thing to do. Taking the catalytic converter off your car will create a completely uncontrolled emission from an internal combustion engine. The amount of deadly gasses you will put out will be about 300 times greater than it was. Just imagine, when you are on the road, even in a LA traffic jam, you probably can not even see as many cars as would be the pollution equivalent of your one car.
It is well known that vehicle emissions contribute greatly to poor air quality. The high level of pollutants you will emit lead to the formation of ozone smog. Elevated ozone levels cause respiratory impairment affecting children, exercising adults, and those with pre-existing respiratory conditions such as asthma. In addition, the high levels of unburned hydrocarbons and other volatile organic compounds are both toxic and cancer causing. You may directly be the cause of a small child who is a passenger in the vehicle behind you developing cancer in 5 to 10 years. If you can live with that ......
DON’T ENDANGER MY TWO YEAR OLD BECAUSE YOU WANT TO SAVE A FEW HUNDRED DOLLARS (after the market cats can be less than $150).
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posted by
someone claiming to be volvobob
on
Fri Jan 27 00:57 CST 2006 [ RELATED]
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Personally sounds like the biggest danger to your kid is a wacko parent who actually believes the lies put out by environmental nuts.
Probably things the government blow up the New Orleans levy system too.
"SOMEONE WHO KNOWS and has a conscience" is someone who is niether.
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posted by
someone claiming to be sB
on
Thu Jan 26 14:55 CST 2006 [ RELATED]
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DOn't tell me, lemme guess. You're a tree hugger who voted for Al Gore. If you want to do something constructive, figure out how to keep your LA ozone crap out there instead of letting it blow aacross the counrty and get together a grass roots campaign to dump your worthless liberal Senators Diane Feinstein and Barbara Boxer that make live miserble for the rest of us. On second though, keep um...you deserve um.
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He is in Peru, not LA. And I suspect our FEDERAL law doesn't apply to him, even though he is an American (South).
And the cat is not as good as a well tuned engine running without a cat. In order for a cat to work, it needs very high heat, and a hot engine creates more NOx than a cooler engine.
PLEASE, we all have children and grand children, or want to be parents. Car engines pollute 95 percent less than they did in the 60s, there is no more lead in gasoline, people are living 20 years longer than in the 60s. None of that has any bearing on the use of a cat.
Before the cat, there was an air pump to burn excess gases in our volvos. But air pumps driven by the fan belt were inneficient and expensive, so the cat was born. Inside the cat are all kinds of nasty things and expensive metals. Where do cats go when they die? Landfill? Into our water supply? They don't get recycled!
Perhaps people in LA shouldn't eat cabbage and stop exhaling. The dirty air will eventually blow across the country and wind up in New England :D
Klaus
--
(V♂LV♂s 1975 164, 1995 854T, 1998 V70R)
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"but here in South America "
"Poor Richard's Rabbit Book: How To Keep Your Volkswagen Alive" has the procedure on p. 204-205. In fact there was an official Volkswagen recall of 49 state Rabbits to kill their cats.
Good luck!
-BTC
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uhm ... he said he aint in the US....
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Throw the cat away and just get a piece of straight pipe to replace it. You dont need a resonator. My question would be the O2 sensors, will they still work?
Klaus
--
(V♂LV♂s 1975 164, 1995 854T, 1998 V70R)
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I'd do it in a heart beat. I believe all your O2 junk is ahead of the cat anyway. When I took the cat off of my older stuff, I was very pleased. Mainly pleased that I didn't have to pay a ton for a new cat. You probably won't feel a huge difference in throttle response, but it beats paying for a new cat.
--
'98 XC '95 855 GLT '83 245 DL (245 for sale! e-mail me if your looking to buy); The Purple Neon has been sold (sniff) All over 120k
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posted by
someone claiming to be sB
on
Wed Jan 25 17:45 CST 2006 [ RELATED]
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Our 740 developed an internal rattle in the cat. WHen I checked, the honeycomb inards had cracked. I busted up all the materal with a hammer and long chisel, dumped it in the junk barrel and ran the car about 4 years w/o a cc. I saw no real change in anything. The mpg stayed about the same and there was no change in driveability
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