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AWD - 2nd ETM--I'm done with Volvo

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2nd ETM--I'm done with Volvo S70

I'm done with Volvo North America. I put a new ETM on my 99 s70 in June of 2004. Well 27,000 miles later and 16 months the new module is failing. I called the dealer, their response, "We know there is a problem with them, that's why we try to keep the price down." Give me a break...I spent $800.00 on the last one. I hope the class action suit in California bankrupts Volvo.

 





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    2nd ETM--I'm done with Volvo S70

    I cant seem to find the thread "vexed". are the issues with the ETM that bad? I have no interest in buying a V70 Turbo if it's going to be issue after issue. would I be better off buying a 92' 740 Wagon?

     




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      2nd ETM--I'm done with Volvo S70

      Repaired ETMs can be bought from Canada - www.xemodex.com for around $500. These will never fail.

      The 745 is a nice car, but the V70 is much quieter with more power. You could try to find a Chevy Nomad with a 6 cylinder or a Model T, both are easily maintained but have no safety gear.

      As much as I like the 240/740, I wouldn't want my family to pass up the new safety features in the newer cars.

      Klaus
      --
      Always willing to listen, just not able to take direction.

       




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      2nd ETM--I'm done with Volvo S70

      Consider buying a 98 V70, no ETM until 99. The bad years are 99-2002. You could buy a 2003 or newer car. Or a 95-97 850 turbo.

       




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    Dealership charged me $1200 for this unit + installation S70

    ETM module on my 1999 V70 failed at 118,000 miles. There is a new one with a yellow sticker on it. The ABS module died shortly after and thus went another $825 at the dealership. The car has numerous electrical problems like a check engine light that comes on, reports a flaw, and then shuts off. The dealer charges $99 to plug into it and read the error code. They also charge three tenths of an hour labor if they lift the hood regardless of what it is done for. I miss my old 240 and 740. These newer Volvos are over-engineered rubbish

     




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      Dealership charged me $1200 for this unit + installation S70

      I would shop around...I've heard of ETM's being $800 to change out/with the software download. The ABS control unit can be repaired and upgraded by Vicor Rocha (do a search for him if interested) for $140 including all shipping charges...am well pleased with his service.
      --
      1998 S70 T5 Emarald Green Metallic, 2004 V70 2.5T Ruby Red, Previous Owner of Black '94 850 Turbo Wagon. My cars have been running so well lately they've got me worried.

       




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    2nd ETM--I'm done with Volvo S70

    I posted a thread on this site a few months ago concerning the ETM/ETS failures on these cars. I didn't get much of a response from any of you on this site. I would suggest ANYONE with a newer Volvo that has the ETS throttle system to visit this page: http://www.volvoxc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=7 Once there, click on the forum that is entitled: VEXED, ONLY discussing ETM Failures.
    This is a place where owners of any and all vehicles with the ETS can congregate and share their experiences. I'm not knocking this site at all. Brickboard has been a GODsend to me too many times to count. If you have a failing ETS/ETM, REPORT IT TO THE NHTSA!!!!! This is the only way something will get done about this part. I hope the guys on Brickboard will get off their asses and let the NHTSA know what has happened. It will help you and everyone in the longrun!

     




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      2nd ETM--I'm done with Volvo S70

      CLEAN OUT THE VACCUME PORT AND LINE TO THE BREATHER BOX YOUR ETM WILL LAST ALOT LONGER

       




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        2nd ETM--I'm done with Volvo S70

        do you have any pics, diagrams re those, where they are, how to get to them ?

         




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          2nd ETM--I'm done with Volvo S70

          PRESS RELEASE on 11/16/05 states that VOLVO has come to an agreement with the State of California regulators and will increase the warranty period to 10 years or 200,000 miles.

           




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      2nd ETM--I'm done with Volvo S70

      I am really beginning to appreciate my 1993 854 GLT. No problems to-date (gasp and KOW).

       




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      2nd ETM--I'm done with Volvo S70

      Sorry, here's the link again:

      http://www.volvoxc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=7

      Once there, click on the forum that is entitled: VEXED, ONLY discussing ETM Failures.



       




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        2nd ETM--I'm done with Volvo S70

        Also,
        http://VEXEDvolvo.org
        --
        1998 S70 T5 Emarald Green Metallic, 2004 V70 2.5T Ruby Red, Previous Owner of Black '94 850 Turbo Wagon. My cars have been running so well lately they've got me worried.

         




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    2nd ETM--I'm done with Volvo S70

    Mine is still original (52,000 miles on a 1999 V70), but, based on others' experiences, a failure may be likely soon. By great luck, my car has been almost flawless regarding repairs. But the $800 ETM: this is pretty cheesy behavior from a company that emphasizes durability and safety and why you want your family in a Volvo instead of an inferior car. Really rich prople can put up with odd maintenance issues (Porsche, Ferrari, etc.), but Volvo is aimed at the normal family person. For shame that they won't admit fault and fix the failing ETM units.

     




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    2nd ETM--I'm done with Volvo S70

    $800? That's all? Most of the owners on this BB quote $1100-1200. I agree with you to not buy another "new" Volvo. But don't give up on them altogether! The 245 is still the best wagon on the market! Even compared to new.

    Klaus
    --
    (1975 164, 1995 854T, 1998 V70R)

     




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      2nd ETM--I'm done with Volvo S70

      Yeah....let me rephrase...I'm done with all new Volvo's...I love my 850

       




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        2nd ETM--I'm done with Volvo S70

        What's an ETM?

         




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          2nd ETM--I'm done with Volvo S70

          Electronic Throttle Module (Fly-by-wire). Volvo changed the design from '99 up so that it is no longer a wire pulling the throttle from the accelerator but instead is computerized. Owners of '98 and older vehicles have a "hard-wire" and don't have the ETM failure issue. For the '99 and newer ETM's, the part that actually controls the opening and closing of the throttle is a thin piece of mylar inside a closed tube. Metal fingers rub across the mylar giving off an electrical signal telling the ECU (Engine Control Unit) how much air to mix with the gas, etc. for proper combustion at desired speed (how much the accelerater is pushed down by your right foot). The metal fingers rub through (or tears through) the mylar after time and the car stalls, surges or goes into a "limp-home-mode" due to the erroneous signal created by the defective ETM. Volvo is being investigated now by the government (with the ETM being a safety issue) for this throttle body that was parted out to a company called Magneti Marreli (part of the Fiat group) and was included on all of their vehicles from '99-'01. Apparently the newer (smiliar design) ETM is made by Bosch and hasn't had the same rates of failure. Volvo has never fessed up to the ETM issue and continues to this day to try to deny service, or at best "clean" the throtte module for a couple of hundred bucks, but usually the ETM fails and it is about $1000 or more to replace. It takes a Volvo download to "mate" the new ETM to your vehicle. Many are pissed, as is the original poster of this thread, and with good cause.

          Hope this explains the failing ETM.
          --
          1998 S70 T5 Emarald Green Metallic, 2004 V70 2.5T Ruby Red, Previous Owner of Black '94 850 Turbo Wagon. My cars have been running so well lately they've got me worried.

           




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      2nd ETM--I'm done with Volvo S70

      I so LOVE a 240!

      Anyhow, the ETM only costs right at $600.00 here, and the software download is another $35.00, however, is your V70 a turbo model? A clogged with carbon coolant nipple will cause ETM symptoms!!! I've never had a replacement ETM fail, YET, but I'm certain the day is comin'.

      Chris

       




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        2nd ETM--I'm done with Volvo S70



        [QUOTE=Mickey]Well, I got my ETM back from BBA and installed. Left the key in for 20 minutes, fired it up and....

        ....the ETS light now comes on anytime I accelerate moderate or harder and STAYS ON throught the rest of the driving cycle. I assume that when the throttle plate starts to open more than just a bit, it sends bad resistance values or somesuch to the computer and triggers the light. Friend of mine at a dealer (sadly not close to me) says that either the ETM is fried or it needs the computer upgrade (which was hoping to avoid going this BBA rebuild route). Oh, another thing I noticed doesn't work when the ETS light is on - you can't accelerate while the brake is depressed. I noticed this while trying to "goose" the gas pedal with the brake on to get the throttle plate to flip open. You can do this once, then it disables the accelerator when the brake is engaged.


        The car does run better, doesn't surge as much on highway, maybe 80% less (but now runs a bit more rough at idle). This is clearly due to the better condition pots they put on - better than mine at least, one of which was really toast at 96,000 miles.

        [img]http://www.teamlegs.com/volvo/pot1.jpg[/img]

        BBA replaces the "end caps" and the 'new' ones (they clearly weren't new parts, maybe pulls - or new ones that are just dirty?) are different part numbers than the originals, which concerned me. I believe this rebuild might often work, but in my case it doesn't and I'm left with no cruise control. I don't think BBA is out to hose people on this, I just think that it didn't work for me perhaps.

        Problem is now I have to hit the dealer and I can either tell them what I did and hope the software upgrade helps - or just hand it over and wait for them to show me this old part when they pull it.

        Another option others might want to try, but I don't have the time to experiment with: On my unit the "wipers" are about 1/2 the width of each carbon strip.

        [img]http://www.teamlegs.com/volvo/pot1withwiper.jpg[/img]

        I imagine you could cut the metal finger's base in half and spread it apart so that the fingers ride on fresh carbon, maybe soldering wire between the half to rejoin them. Maybe, just speculation, something like this:

        [img]http://www.teamlegs.com/volvo/pot1withwipermod.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]


        Now, what's this about a "clogged with carbon coolant nipple"?

        I said nipple.

         




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          2nd ETM--I'm done with Volvo S70


           




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            2nd ETM--I'm done with Volvo S70

            For those following along.... today I went to Volvo to have the BBA-Reman rebuilt ETM reloaded with software. Fact is, you can't reload it with software, you can only UPGRADE the software. So the tech worked with me to upgrade the software.... it ruined it. The car wouldn't run at all, stumbled at idle like it had water in the fuel.

            $884 later I have a brand new ETM in the car.

            Not happy

             




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              2nd ETM--I'm done with Volvo S70

              I'm truly sorry and know you gave it your best shot. Take pride in the fact that you helped many people avoid the rebuild route actually saving them the headache and more expense. I know this isn't much solace, but your efforts are greatly appreciated.
              --
              1998 S70 T5 Emarald Green Metallic, 2004 V70 2.5T Ruby Red, Previous Owner of Black '94 850 Turbo Wagon. My cars have been running so well lately they've got me worried.

               




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              ETM info S70

              I'm unaware of anyone trying to rebuild ETMs. At dealers, you will only get a new ETM with the ETM reload SW. The new ETMs have yellow stickers and to date, seem to be troublefree.

               




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                ETM info V70-XC70

                What is the yellow sticker Oscar referred to on new ETMs? My ETM was replaced on Sept 14, 05. The part number was 8644347. I have been trying to determine if these are prone to the same failure and if so at what milage. Do we know who made these replacement parts? Has anyone asked why the Bosch ETMs used in the 02 and newer models are not used as replacements for the failing 99-01 parts?

                 




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                ETM info S70

                Oscar...Mike was doing his deed being a guinnea pig for many (posted on another board) by trying an ETM rebuild that ONE company was claiming it could do. His results weren't great but not terrible either, and so he wanted to see what the end result would be if the rebuilt ETM was flash upgraded by the dealer. You read about his experience in the above post. Many of us were hoping that what he had tried for around $200 was truly going to be THE SOLUTION to this expensive repair, but now we're back to square one with the dealer having the monopoly on these...The status quo sucks! Where is NHSTA and what the HE[[ are they doing????
                --
                1998 S70 T5 Emarald Green Metallic, 2004 V70 2.5T Ruby Red, Previous Owner of Black '94 850 Turbo Wagon. My cars have been running so well lately they've got me worried.

                 




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                  ETM info S70

                  Just out of curiosity, how do dealers load the software? Is the software stored on a conventional computer and connected to a component on the car? What sort of digital storage is on the car?

                   




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                    ETM info S70

                    Can't say for sure where it's loaded from...but they do use the OBD-II port and the information in this case, I blieve, is loaded into the ECU. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
                    --
                    1998 S70 T5 Emarald Green Metallic, 2004 V70 2.5T Ruby Red, Previous Owner of Black '94 850 Turbo Wagon. My cars have been running so well lately they've got me worried.

                     




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                      ETM info S70


                      Hi MIJ, and others,

                      The software is loaded by VADIS throught the OBDII port, but you won't be able to do it with a laptop, etc. There are about 15 computers in the car (yes, 15) and they each have possible downloads. The downloads are done by satellite and require a part number (the order number essentially, that the technician has to ask the parts guy for) to initiate the download TO the VADIS cart from Volvo. They used to be able to load as much software as they wanted for a customer - but they've taken that out of their hands, and ours.

                      The good news is my car runs not only like new - but better than new in some ways. My engine for example, used to shake when I shut it off. Now it just turns off quietly, not shaking. I assume some software change helped with this. Also, cruise control is more responsive when I use the accelerate button.

                      On a related note, I complained to Volvo and got what now seems to be a pretty canned reply (notice no mention of his thoughts on the dealer attempting to pork me on the price of the ETM). Imagine my lack of surprised when sales started vulturing around the service bay when they heard what was wrong with my car ;)


                      -------- Original Message --------
                      Subject: RE: Re: Car stalled with oncoming traffic - ETS light on after. Known issue? [INTR:018037]
                      Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 08:53:05 -0500 (EST)
                      From: [email protected]

                      Dear Mr. Mxxxxxx,

                      Thank you for contacting Volvo Cars.

                      The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) is still involved in the investigation into the electronic throttle module that is found in some of our model cars. We take the concerns of our owners in this matter very seriously and we are cooperating with NHTSA in determining the scope,
                      frequency and safety consequences of the complaints.

                      Once a definitive course of correction action and resolution has been reached to ensure vehicle safety, Volvo will notify all owners involved. At this time, we would suggest that you hold onto your receipt until the issue is resolved. You may want to periodically check with our Customer Care Department at 1-800-458-1552 for the latest information on this topic.

                      We understand that this experience is not to your expectation and for that we do apologize.

                      Sincerely,

                      Bxxx Cxxxx
                      Volvo Cars of North America



                      > To : [email protected]
                      > Subject : Re: Car stalled with oncoming traffic - ETS light on after. Known
                      issue? [INTR:018037]
                      > Date : Sat, 29 Oct 2005, 12:11:17 PM EDT
                      >
                      >
                      > Hello,
                      > As you suggested, I brought my car into the dealer and it's exactly as
                      > suspected - the Electronic Throttle Module had to be replaced at a cost
                      > of $884.00. The repair was made quickly and efficiently by the expert
                      > technician Exxxxx at Gxxxxx Volvo in MA. He should be
                      > commended for his professionalism and expertise, if he hasn't been already.
                      > Given the publicity this part has received I'm not surprised that I
                      > suffered this failure as well, but I am concerned with the large cost of
                      > the repair. From what I understand, the replacement is identical and I
                      > have heard from NHTSA, and know other owners who have been through this,
                      > that this replacement can fail as well, often within 20,000 miles - out
                      > of warranty. Parts don't last forever, but repairs of this level of
                      > seriousness and cost should not be a regular event or Volvo should at
                      > least stand by the brand. For instance, I also own a Honda Odyssey that
                      > suffered a transmission failure - also a known issue with that
                      > model/year. Honda extended the warranty on all of these cars to 100,000
                      > miles for the transmission and REPLACED the transmission with a new one
                      > at no cost. Frankly, I think something similar could be done by Volvo
                      > for me in this instance and should - as a show of good will to a long
                      > time customer who has put his faith into this brand for the past 20 years.
                      >
                      > Unfortunately, I'd like to point out that the cost of the part was
                      > initially presented to me at a price that was quite a bit ABOVE Volvo's
                      > manufacturers suggested price, which concerns me. I mentioned this to
                      > the the service manager and he was kind enough to bring the price in
                      > line with what I heard was the correct "maximum" price. However, this
                      > just adds insult to injury in my opinion - shaking my confidence in the
                      > Volvo brand.
                      >
                      > During the repair, one of the sales reps asked if I'd be interested in a
                      > new Volvo. I really love driving Volvos, but I have to consider what my
                      > next car will be if I can't rely on my S70's throttle module.
                      >
                      > Sincerely,
                      > Mike Mxxxxxx

                       




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                  ETM info S70


                  Thanks MIJ. Yeah, sux that this part requires a software load, otherwise I'd just be out $480 or so. Getting porked at the dealer on the price of the ETM wasn't fun either. But, the technician I've known for a long time and he gave me lots of hints, etc. on other things, great guy.

                  Car runs MUCH better - literally like new. So, I'm glad that's over with, but I did complain to Volvo - lets see if their Good Will is as good as I got from Honda on my Odyssey when they replaced my transmission free of charge (they extended the warranty on them due to know issues - you'd think at least Volvo could do THAT and only have to fix the ones that go bad).

                   




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