http://www.brickboard.com/FORUMS/uid=20427 The Volvo owner's resource since 1997. en Copyright 1997-2009, Jarrod Stenberg Sun, 22 Nov 2009 07:46 GMT Sun, 22 Nov 2009 07:46 GMT brickadmin@denizen.net brickadmin@denizen.net volvo 1440 http://www.brickboard.com/images/logo_b_25.gif http://www.brickboard.com/ 25 25 The Volvo owner's resource since 1997. What's wrong with the diesel? Those are getting rare, especially with them getting torn up for swaps all the time. If you owned it since new and it's in good shape, it will bring a lot of bucks as an all-original Diesel. Fix that and sell it then swap a V8 into an old gasser would be my recommendation. Gassers are dime a dozen, the diesels are rare birds and in high demand nowadays. I used to have a Ford 5.0L V8 Volvo wagon, and now I drive 2 Volvo diesel wagons, an '85 745 TD and an '82 245, so I speak from experience... -- George, Seattle WA http://www.brickboard.com/V8/?id=1362428&rss=1 Mon, 27 Jul 2009 20:58 GMT OK, here is the long story. 4 years ago I sold my beloved V8 Volvo wagon. It started life as a gray 1989 745 GLE 16v w/M46. Junked the broken B234 and installed a fuel-injected 5.0 HO from a '90 Mustang, using a fresh Motorcraft longblock from Ford and the Mustang's T5 trans. Had a custom driveshaft built by Drivelines Northwest, and used wiring and mounting adapter bits from the Converse kit. I then spent several years perfecting it and getting it sorted. Everything about the conversion was right, down to the last detail. Clean as hell. It had a full Borla dual exhaust and IPD sways but otherwise a stock sleeper. The guy I sold it to back on the east coast drove it for 4 years and about 40k miles with zero, I mean zero, problems. He and I stayed in touch since occasionally he would want to know more about things I had done in the conversion as he serviced the car. Got a call from the guy a week ago with the bad news. The car was T-boned as he was making a left turn; fenders untouched but both passenger doors got mashed and the B-pillar got bent in. Still ran and drove fine but the insurance company totaled it out. It's a $7k estimate to do the bodywork so this car is done in its current form. So now what we have here is a very nice V8 Volvo in great functional condition except it's totaled and maybe about to be sent to the boneyard. The current owner is considering trying to find another good body and swapping the whole conversion over, but he's not sure if he has the space or time. I would hate to see this get junked after all that's gone into it. So, to help him make his decision I agreed to put the word out about this and ask: would anyone here be interested in picking up the pieces from this and building Volv8 version 2.0? You would get a pretty nice, rust-free 1989 745 GLE with a 40k-mile Ford 5.0 engine and manual trans, all properly sorted and working like it should, just badly bent. You'd need another good body to put everything into, but it would be easy, no parts chasing or fabricating or wondering how it fits together. I don't know what he'd be looking at on price but maybe in the one or two grand range... what he could get for it will of course be a factor in whether he decides to let it go or not. I have no financial stake in whatever happens, only an emotional one. FWIW I still miss this car daily and would take on this project myself if I could. It's located near Baltimore. If you think you might be seriously interested in this, post here and we'll see where this goes. Pics here: http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=172653 -- George, Seattle WA http://www.brickboard.com/V8/?id=1353092&rss=1 Tue, 9 Jun 2009 01:29 GMT I have a '76 245 with a dead alternator...I think. The exact problem is that it won't excite, and the D+ terminal won't turn the amp light on. It does not charge at all. It's actually fairly new, just out of warranty and used to work fine. Anyway, my question is, if I find an alternator off a later 240 with the regulator built into the back of the alternator, can I just use that and throw away the old regulator and harness? Or does the early 240 need the external regulator style? -- George, Seattle WA http://www.brickboard.com/RWD/?id=1100025&rss=1 Sat, 29 Jul 2006 08:27 GMT Thanks everyone, lots of great info. I'll track down the problem with the amp light, get it fixed, and see if it charges after that. It sounds as if that is definitely the problem. -- George, Seattle WA http://www.brickboard.com/RWD/?id=1092387&rss=1 Mon, 3 Jul 2006 16:26 GMT My '76 245 is acting up in a strange way lately. I rescued this car from the Pacific Northwest rainforest a few weeks ago, got it running quite well, and started to drive it the 25 miles home. It made it the first 20 miles (mostly backroads and some highway) without incident, but in the last 5 miles (surface streets) I noticed that the coolant gauge and gas gauge were dropping together. I pulled off the road and shut it down, everything looked fine, and the car would not restart. I left it and returned that night with a freshly charged battery to drive it home. I was driving with the lights on, of course, and after a short while the gauges started dropping again and the lights started to dim. At a stop light a block from home, it started to sputter and died. Dead battery, no restart. I finally got it home, and discovered that the alternator seems to not be charging at all (checked with voltmeter, 9 volts when running). The funny thing is, this is a new rebuilt alternator with only about 1500 miles on it. I'll pull it off today and have Schuck's test it tomorrow, but I suspect that maybe something else has gone wrong. Any ideas of where to start? Could the exciter wire be messed up somehow? Other wiring issues? I should also mention another interesting fact--in all of this, the "amp" light on the dash never comes on. Is that important, irrelevant, or what? Thanks in advance-- -- George, Seattle WA http://www.brickboard.com/RWD/?id=1092228&rss=1 Mon, 3 Jul 2006 00:49 GMT Anyone have a K-Jet 240 who can advise on this? -- George, Seattle WA http://www.brickboard.com/RWD/?id=1088108&rss=1 Mon, 19 Jun 2006 00:21 GMT I'm sorting through the vacuum system on my recently-acquired '76 245, and came across a few issues. First, just as an interesting aside, this car appears to have come from the factory without EGR. The EGR port on the exhaust manifold is blocked off, but it still has the EGR system vacuum amplifier and actuator valve. Probably major vacuum leak sources, so I eliminated them. Here's the main issue. When I got this car, the vacuum line was off the distributor vacuum advance servo. Where does it go to? Does the distributor just get straight manifold, or does it attach to that weird little device on the bottom of the intake with a knob on it? That's where I have it now, but I'd like to get it right. http://www.brickboard.com/RWD/?id=1087951&rss=1 Sun, 18 Jun 2006 09:24 GMT Yeah, Benz diesel mileage is nothing amazing. The main attraction, though, is that you can run biodiesel or, with some modification, straight vegetable oil fuel. Can't do that with a gasser. Plus, the diesel cycle is more elegant and simpler from an engineering standpoint, and diesels just run better than gassers. I switched to diesels purely because of biodiesel, but now that they're all I drive, I can't imagine going back to the constant hiccups, rough idles, hesitations, backfires, and general shenanigans of gasoline engines. http://www.brickboard.com/RWD/?id=1087913&rss=1 Sun, 18 Jun 2006 04:51 GMT does the 1976 model have both pumps? are they driven by the same relay? it looks like the main pump is right there next to the tank, on the driver's side. is the in-tank pump driven by a separate fuse or relay that I could test? Also, I read about a built-in screen or restrictor that can get clogged--is that myth or fact, and could it be causing the problem? What if it was a plugged fuel filter? Sorry about all the questions--thanks in advance for the help. I think the in-tank pump, if it exists, may well be dead and the source of the noise, because the main pump keeps making noises like it's trying to suck air, even though the tank is now full. http://www.brickboard.com/RWD/?id=1087852&rss=1 Sun, 18 Jun 2006 02:03 GMT The D24 (used in the 200 and 700 diesels) is made by VW, but on the Audi template, so it has an Audi bellhousing bolt pattern, different from the VW 1.6TD. You do have options within that bolt pattern, though: there is a 2.0L Audi 5cyl TD that should basically bolt in (which was actually available in volvos in Europe for awhile, can be found stateside in early-'80s Audi 5000s), an Audi 2.5L 5cyl TDI available from Europe, a 2.4L 5cyl diesel used in VW Eurovans and available from Canada, and a 2.5L V6 TDI available from Europe. Or, of course, the D24T itself, which, if well maintained, is a long-lasting, efficient, incredibly nice engine. Sounds gorgeous, runs smoothly, and has lots of power after the turbo comes online. Don't go to the trouble of changing out the tranny to put a VW motor in. The thing would be such an absolute dog that it wouldn't be worth it. If pure mileage is what you want, get an old VW Jetta or Golf or Dasher or Rabbit diesel, or a newer VW Golf or Jetta or Passat TDI. If a diesel Volvo is what you want, I'd just use a D24T, or better yet, find a stock one (there's an extremely nice 745GLE TD with a M46 manual transmission for sale here for $3500 right now, which I have driven and know runs excellently). If a diesel engine swap is what you insist on doing, make it worth it by installing a Mercedes 3.0L turbodiesel (either the earlier 5cyl or later 6cyl are both superb engines), and back it up with a Mercedes manual transmission. Volvos are too heavy and square to get great mileage. http://www.brickboard.com/RWD/?id=1087848&rss=1 Sun, 18 Jun 2006 01:58 GMT You guys are sure right about the safety concern. I got it roadworthy and drove it 8 miles back to my place of work, and it wanted to drive off the road and go do circles in the woods the whole time. Pretty scary, especially since it pulled leftward, directly into oncoming traffic at 50 mph. I removed the power steering belt when I got back and it fixed everything. The car doesn't even need an alignment; it goes straight down the road. So that establishes that the problem definitely lies in the power assist...and unfortunately, it doesn't seem like something that could be adjusted. I think the rack is just shot, I mean, even if I could get rid of the pulling the steering is still so light that you have absolutely no road feel at all, and the power steering pump was really dragging the engine down. The steering isn't even all that heavy with the power assist disconnected, so my inclination, rather than buying a new rack, is to just drive it like it is, with the power steering disabled. I prefer manual steering anyway (used to it on my Rabbit), for its road feel. Am I going to damage anything by just driving it with the belt removed? http://www.brickboard.com/RWD/?id=1087693&rss=1 Sat, 17 Jun 2006 07:22 GMT I can't figure out what type of automatic tranny my '76 245 has. I would think it would be a BW-55 3-speed, right? Except that it has an overdrive button on the side of the shift handle, which doesn't seem to do anything. What gives? I'm sure it is the original transmission, so it must be whatever the 1976 automatic was. Also, assuming this tranny is original, what kind of lifespan should I expect from it, and what should I do to extend it? It has 241,000 on it right now, and seems to engage all forward and reverse gears solidly and not slip or make any weird noises or smells. I guess that means it's OK for now? I know Volvo automatics are reputed to last a long time. Should I just change the fluid and filter and forget about it? -- George, Seattle WA http://www.brickboard.com/RWD/?id=1087487&rss=1 Fri, 16 Jun 2006 17:31 GMT Just got my "new" 1976 245DL running and discovered something happening with the steering that's unlike anything I've seen before. The PO told me it needed an alignment to correct a pull to the left that the car had. Sure enough, it pulls strongly to the left. However, the funny thing is that it does it even when the car is stopped! When the car is parked on gravel with the wheels straight ahead, if I start it up, the steering wheel just winds itself all the way over and posts itself on left lock. It's pretty annoying, you can't let go of the wheel ever, even when the car is stopped! Also, the steering is extremely light, much lighter than on any other Volvo I've driven. It's like driving a Lincoln or something, you can really drive with your pinky finger. And the P/S pump sounds like it's working overtime, straining constantly. I'm guessing there must be something wrong with the power steering system, but what? Is there a valve in the rack that could have gotten stuck, or a seal that is blown? It doesn't leak any fluid, and the fluid is very dirty but full. I don't know where to start, except to maybe take the belt off the P/S pump for now until this is sorted out. Anyone seen this before? Thanks, -- George, Seattle WA http://www.brickboard.com/RWD/?id=1087483&rss=1 Fri, 16 Jun 2006 17:19 GMT All right, thanks for your help guys, I got the old beast going. It took me the better part of three afternoons, but I knew the car would pull through. It turned out to be a very badly carbon-tracked distributor cap. Once I replaced that and one of the spark plugs (which was dead), it would fire up, but ran terribly. I kept looking around, then finally realized that when it backfired with the old screwed-up dizzy cap, it blew a bunch of vacuum lines off the manifold, down underneath where it was hard to see. Put those back on, and it cranked right up and ran like a top. You can't beat an old Volvo for stuff like this. It was like it had been working fine all along--smooth idle, revved up quick, good power, etc. Anyway, now that it's on the road I'm sure I'll find more problems, but for now it's good to be behind the wheel of a brick again! Oh, one question though: how loud should the fuel pump on this model be? In this car it's really quite loud, audible inside the car at idle. Is that normal? -- George, Seattle WA http://www.brickboard.com/RWD/?id=1087482&rss=1 Fri, 16 Jun 2006 17:11 GMT Wow, awesome info, guys. OK, so I should try a bypass wire directly from the battery positive side to the hot side of the coil, is that correct? (Coil #15 is the positive power wire?) What you describe sounds accurate, except that one one of the occasions when it did briefly start, I just held the key in the start position the whole time, and it died quickly, coughed a couple times, then just went back to cranking on the starter. Key was turned the entire time, so ballast resistor, theoretically, would have been bypassed, but it still died. Worth trying, though. If that bears no fruit, I'll also start playing with the fuel dizzy as per your instructions. (tomorrow, as I can't make it over to where the car is today) I'll let you know the results. Thanks! http://www.brickboard.com/RWD/?id=1086682&rss=1 Tue, 13 Jun 2006 18:39 GMT Any thoughts? Here's another couple questions--does the '76 245 (first year for the OHC motor) have electronic, or mechanical ignition? Also, I notice that with the key on, engine off, the coil has power on one side and ground on the other...then when cranking, the ground cycles on and off. I assume from this that the coil switching is done on the negative side...but should it be grounding when the engine is not running? Thanks... http://www.brickboard.com/RWD/?id=1086535&rss=1 Tue, 13 Jun 2006 06:31 GMT Hello Brickerrs, After being away from the Volvo fold for awhile (used to have a 745 V8, but have been driving diesel VWs for the last couple years), I just picked up a fairly nice '76 245 that has been sitting for a year. It was driven in one night, then wouldn't start the next morning. The owners had another 245 so they just started driving that car, and the '76 has sat in that same spot since then. B21, automatic, 241,000 miles. Has that weird vacuum pump atop the valve cover. K-Jet mechanical fuel injection. Pretty well maintained, clean oil with no water, new air filter, etc. After getting a fresh battery into it, I tried to fire it. Here are the current symptoms: generally, cranks over but will not catch. On four occasions, it has fired very briefly, then shut back down in less than a second. Cam/crank and ignition timing are all within spec, and it appears to have spark. Plugs have been cleaned. Amount of gas in tank unknown, but gas can be smelled under the hood after cranking, and the plugs were wet when I took them out. I can hear the fuel pump running when cranking. When it has fired up, it has sounded pretty strong, but then it dies almost immediately and shows no interest in starting again. My initial thought was that, since it ran one day then wouldn't start the next, it must be something electrical. Any tips for what to look for on this model 240? What are the "usual suspects" and common failures associated with a no-start condition? The owner did say that it had a pinhole coolant leak, and sure enough when I looked in the reservoir it was empty, which makes me suspect an overheat. However, since the oil is clean and water-free, and it has fired a few times, and it doesn't smell like it got hot, I doubt that is the problem. It has backfired a few times, too, when trying to start. I think I've described the situation pretty comprehensively....any thoughts? Thanks in advance--looking forward to getting this old soldier back on the road! George in Seattle http://www.brickboard.com/RWD/?id=1086496&rss=1 Tue, 13 Jun 2006 03:10 GMT My uncle has a blue '87 244 that I'm helping him sell. Car ain't too pretty but it has been maintained well and works fine. Details: --Light blue body with dark blue interior. Body, chassis, and suspension are all fairly solid (NO ACCIDENTS AND NO RUST) but the car is in pretty sorry cosmetic shape. There's a shallow but long scrape down the left side, most of the trim is missing, the bumpers are solid but wrinkled, the grill is gone, and it is missing two hubcaps. The paint is actually OK, not too faded, but it is very dirty and dinged up. On the upside, the trunk and hood and all the doors open and shut soundly (they thunk like a Volvo should), the windows all go up and down with no trouble, there are no water leaks, all the lights work (actually it has very expensive new taillight units, which cost several hundred dollars a few months ago), the glass is pretty good, and the body is completely straight. If you are not offended by the sloppy appearance there's nothing too wrong with it. Have all keys, and the trunk latch is new. --Interior is mostly intact but pretty beat up. Dark blue cloth upholstery is in OK shape but dirty. It has a nice stereo, but the deck doesn't work. Center console is broken, AC does not blow cold anymore, the heated seats are long dead, and it hasn't been cleaned in a long time. The driver's seat sags to one side like many 240s. However, again, the basics are there: the headliner is not falling down, the seatbelts all work fine, and all important accessories work perfectly (wipers, heater, defrost, gauges, etc). No sunroof. --Chassis and suspension are in fine shape. The car goes straight down the road and has excellent, responsive power 4-wheel disc brakes. Tires are not great but they will get you where you need to go. --Mechanicals are generally in fine shape. The car has about 160,000 miles (just getting broken in ;-) ). The engine (B23F) starts and runs fine (though the exhaust is a little loud), and the 4-speed automatic shifts smoothly (it currently needs the overdrive relay fixed, which is keeping it from shifting into top gear, but is tight otherwise). It has been maintained regularly by Northwest Automotive in Seattle, with frequent oil changes, and has a number of new parts, including a recent alternator. It has good quick oil pressure and no funny noises or oil burning or smoke or anything else. Other than an occasional fuel pump hiccup--his mechanic says it may need to be replaced at some point--there are no major mechanical issues. Blue book on an '87 244 with 160k in "fair" condition is $830; we're asking $550. It has sat for about 4 months and the battery is dead but it will start right up with a jump and can be driven home anywhere. Email &#091email&#093hotrod_volvo@hotmail.com&#091/email&#093 if interested. Will add pics in a little bit. Thanks, George ---EDIT---Pics: http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/1/web/2053000-2053999/2053244_42_full.jpg http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/1/web/2053000-2053999/2053244_43_full.jpg http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/1/web/2053000-2053999/2053244_44_full.jpg http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/1/web/2053000-2053999/2053244_45_full.jpg http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/1/web/2053000-2053999/2053244_46_full.jpg http://www.brickboard.com/RWD/?id=1034042&rss=1 Mon, 26 Dec 2005 00:11 GMT '89 745 with '90 5.0 with everything hooked up, manual trans, in Seattle, never had a problem. They sniffed it, it passed, I left with plates. It is illegal for them to look under the hood unless you fail the test. In King County (where Seattle is), if you do fail and they do look under there and they do notice the Ford logos, the car is illegal (only county anywhere in the US where engine swaps are illegal), but in Spokane there is no way they will care. Probably much more primitive test too, easier to pass I'd bet. You should do just fine even without a smog pump as long as your engine is generally in a solid state of tune (good plugs, injectors, compression, etc). http://www.brickboard.com/V8/?id=1012860&rss=1 Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:09 GMT Good luck! These cars are lots of fun to drive, but no fun to sell. If you are thinking you are going to get even a little bit of your investment back, think again. If I were you, I'd hold onto it. I only got $4900 for my car, which (to be frank) sounds a lot more desireable--had a 5-speed, all bugs worked out, great body and interior, IPD sways, no rust, new warranteed factory engine, other new stuff, etc. And that was after having it on the market for more than 6 months! In light of that, and also because your V8 is not even the HO motor (if I recall right--Tbirds were non-HO?), I think that, realistically, you should be overjoyed to see $3k, and probably happy with $2500. It is painful, I know...you probably have at least double that invested in the car. That is why, unless you really need it gone (which I did with mine), it might make more sense to keep it and enjoy it. http://www.brickboard.com/V8/?id=1008847&rss=1 Fri, 30 Sep 2005 18:02 GMT I don't think that motor has a PFE (IIRC, that is the pressure switch in the exhaust passage to the EGR valve that tells the ECU how much EGR is occurring based on how much exhaust pressure there is in the passage). Could be the EVR (stands for EGR Valve Regulator I think), or the EVP, which is the plunger sensor in the back of the EGR valve that tells the computer how far the valve has opened (it is a feedback control--the EVR applies vacuum to the valve until the EVP tells the computer that the valve is open to the desired position, and then the EVR varies how much vacuum it applies to maintain that EVP value). I used to get that Code 31 every once in a while, but like I have said before, while you might want to address it, I don't necessarily think that is causing the problems you are experiencing. Have you tried running a KOER test? During the test, I think the ECU examines the operation of the EGR valve and all associated actuators and sensors, and if it is actively malfunctioning it will then tell you. All it takes for it to set Code 31 in KOEO is for there to have been one little discrepancy one time in the last 15,000 miles. If you don't want to go to the trouble of a KOER, you could clear codes in KOEO or by disconnecting the battery for a few minutes, then drive for a few days and run another KOEO test and see if it throws a 31 again. http://www.brickboard.com/V8/?id=1005794&rss=1 Tue, 20 Sep 2005 19:08 GMT The engine should run very poorly or even stall out when you go to full EGR at idle. It dumps a bunch of spent gases into the intake stream so that efficient combustion is practically impossible. Also, like a vacuum leak, the gases that the EGR lets in are not metered by the MAF sensor so the ECU does not inject additional fuel to compensate. I think that you are seeing a typical result in your testing, so that should be no problem. Does the ticking sound like pinging, possibly? That would go hand in hand with high EGTs and lean mixtures...might want to check base ignition timing too. Remeber to take the SPOUT/PIP plug out first or your reading will be way wrong. Is the sputtering/ticking accompanied by any roughness or hesitation? Unless the idle is really crappy, 100rpm fluctation on a gasoline V8 with a HO cam is probably within normal spec. You could probably get more meaningful advice on some Mustang forums, where the guys really know the EEV-IV system. Some good ones are Corral.net, Stangnet.com, and allfordmustangs.com. http://www.brickboard.com/V8/?id=1003823&rss=1 Wed, 14 Sep 2005 17:02 GMT FWIW, O2 sensors were new when I built the car (probably 20k ago now, 2 years, but still that should be new enough to not mess up). Also I replaced the EGR valve and tested its operation, so I know when I last saw the car it was working fine (I had suspected it of problems so I smoke tested it after installing and all seemed good). Computer is new, from Ford dealer. Intake has been cleaned internally and machined to a decked surface (upper and lower) so it should be fine. Ed, you probably already knew all that but just in case... I'm sorry to hear about this, Ed. I honestly have no idea what could cause this kind of thing--part of the reason I moved on from that car to all-mechanical diesels like my VW was that I was sick of EFI! My only comment is that it must be something that has changed in the last month; a long-term problem would not get this bad this fast. Checking those 10-pin connectors is a good idea but I bet that is not the problem. I would be looking for resistances, checking for 12v everywhere, and carefully checking all grounds. Sounds like something has gone wonky with the EFI. Different EGTs is definitely indicative of mixture issues. Another tip is that, at least if I remember correctly, the computer does not calculate a different mixture for the individual banks based on the 02 sensor readings from each bank; rather, it analyzes the values from both 02 sensors and sets one mixture for the entire engine. If there really are different mixtures getting to each side, than something has gone funny with the wiring to the injectors or from the computer or something. It is labor intensive work, but you probably need to get out the wiring diagram and the DVOM and go through that wiring harness with a fine-tooth comb, checking all powers, connectors, grounds, etc. I had issues somewhat similar to these for a year and a half, and there was one little problem that caused them that we finally had fixed (after going to three expensive fuel injection specialists) by a Mustang 5.0 specialty race shop. It related to the power to the 02 sensor heaters. It had driven me up the wall for forever, I went through that wiring harness so many times I could probably still trace it with my eyes closed, but after those guys found the issue it was perfect. Look at the lengthy analysis they wrote up (the one from Brad's Custom Auto)--they go into what they found and how they fixed it. If the same problem has come back, you could go back and see if you can fix it again. I had the injectors rebuilt once and cleaned again a year or so later (trying to trace that damn EFI bug too) so they should be good, but you could check them with a stethoscope to see if they are all clicking the same loudness and length and if they are all healthy. Maybe you can get a "noid light" too (I think that is what it's called), which plugs into the injector harnesses and tells you how long the injection pulses are (this way you would know for sure if one side was getting longer pulses and more fuel than the other). One funny thing I used to notice with the first V8--the one that eventually threw a rod and had all kinds of other issues--was that the two sides had differing emissions. Maybe they had different temps too, I never checked like you did. However, I always figured the different emissions were due to mechanical problems with that engine (low compression on some cylinders, burning oil, etc) that the new one should not have (and if it does, you get a new one!). Could also be because the cats are slightly different, as you might have noticed. Dunno what else could explain the difference in temps...the left side definitely has more bends and is longer, but that should not cause THAT much effect, and the running problems (hard starting, rough/low idle, etc) definitely do not sound like exhaust blockages or other exhaust issues. Usually when an exhaust gets blocked, the engine starts and idles nice and smooth, but just cannot produce any power because it is getting choked off as soon as it tries to really move any air. That is not what is happening to your car. Feel each exhaust at its end--if they are both pumping out plenty of air, even if they feel a little different (which they should due to the routings), they should be fine. That is all I have. Hope you get this figured out--I know EXACTLY what this kind of thing is like, and trust me, I feel your pain! Just know that it is something that CAN be fixed, since there are a finite number of things in the EFI and ignition systems, and once it is fixed, it will feel great. Good luck. http://www.brickboard.com/V8/?id=1003661&rss=1 Wed, 14 Sep 2005 04:15 GMT Ed, I never hooked the VSS up. It does do what you say--provide elevated idle when rolling--but I thought the trouble of doing it was not worth it. Always was fine for me. The rough idle is troubling, hope you figure it out. George http://www.brickboard.com/V8/?id=997608&rss=1 Fri, 26 Aug 2005 04:00 GMT That definitely sounds like an ECT dying. You should actually really not drive it too much like this, because if it really is dumping in a ton of fuel, that could ruin the cats and then you'd be in real trouble. http://www.brickboard.com/V8/?id=994128&rss=1 Mon, 15 Aug 2005 19:15 GMT Use the text input below to search brickboard.com query http://www.brickboard.com/FIND/