Volvo RWD 120-130 Forum

I thought I'd start a thread on my latest adventures with the 122. After Rhys got the carbs sorted, I had to make a quick trip (120 mies one way) in the pouring rain to pick up my front bumper from the chrome plater. Got home at around midnight, then up early the next day for a quick oil change and jet off out the door to drive almost 800 miles to get to the IPD Garage Sale. Met a few BB people at the show - tuned the 122 parked beside me - great time. The car made it all the way without a hitch (well, the angle drive broke and the temp switch for the e-fan died) - but aside from that everything was fine.

The HIF's are great (need to recurve the distributor) - over the total trip, I'm averaging 31 US MPG (that's 35 MPG of the Queen's gallons - for the Canadians, I got 8L/100KM). Spectacular for a performance car with gobs of power.

Here she is:

Yesterday, we tooled around the Oregon Coast in the 122 - great time and we got to do what I've wanted to do since I saw Dale's photo's of the 960 on the beach...we drove the 122 on the beach! First attempt had us stuck and we had to unload the car and drive out. We then spotted Haystack rock (don't recall the beach name) from the highway and pulled a U-turn and went back.

The day had changed from sunny to overcast and the pictures are (I think) stunning.

Thanks for all the help getting me here guys.

Craig

I have coveted another man's goods!!! Wow! Green with envy after seeing your engine pics, absolutely stunning! Now I know what a finished 122 is supposed to look like.
Thank you!! Thank you,

Klaus
--
Common sense trumps a PhD

Simply my interpretation of what one should look like. I love them all - event he greasy ones with lots of character.

Craig

Forgive me Father for I have sinned...and it was GOOD! That really is a stunning engine room in a very stunning car. I saw it at the ipd show, and it was an inspiration to me to get my 220 looking better, and my 130 running and hopefully looking half as good as that one. Some true craftsmanship and an artistic eye, in my opinion.

Thanks for the complements and getting this thread back on topic - labour of love to be sure.

Craig:

Did you have the courage to count the man hours that went in to this vehicle? Or, did you like most experienced and passionate car (boat, airplane, house, insert noun here) enthusiasts just "accidentally" lose track?

That's pretty good MPG, have you got a five speed in it?

M41 but a 240 rear end with 3.73 gears...
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Dale

Too tall, 4.10 would give better economy & performance. 3.73 gears nearly doesn't need an overdrive.

How the heck would 4.10's deliver better economy? Are we breaking laws of physics now? How is 3.73 too tall? The performance does not suffer at all. Random thoughts are always welcome.

Random thoughts?

Your MPG figures are certainly excellent so you're obviously sensitive to the engines needs and are willing to change out of OD or even down a gear, when needed, Very high gearing can lead to the carbs running open a bit too much to maintain the speed and this means a drop in consumption. You do have some extra power to bridge this gap. Any idea what you think the bhp is now?
The other problem with using this axle is at the other end when the 1st gear comes up to something like the old second gear. Not too kind on the clutch if you live in hilly country.
A dash mounted vacuum gauge will tell the truth. Keeping it out of the red will be a bit more difficult with this sort of gearing.

While I get what you're saying. Who luggs a new engine (I've never been known to sit a WOT in the wrong gear). For those that don't know the geography of my trip, this is an adventure that goes through the rockies and down to the coast, so basically 1/3 of the driving was in the mountains. No point in trying to hold on to OD, when the drop to 4th gives ample power. There were only a couple of times when this was necessary. At the speeds we were running on the way home (80 + MPH) the engine is in it's sweet spot and pulls up hills without question or complaint.

This is not an average B20 for power (the power band (torque curve) feels very broad and flat). I've not dyno'ed it yet, but I would hazard a guess that it would put around 140 hp down at the rear wheels. Litterally gobs of power, get it up around 3000 rpm and just hold on (I did have a self-imposed redline of 4500 as I was breaking it in). So if this was a regular B18 or B20 with 60 - 80 hp a the rear wheels, then the gearing talk makes sense. You'd be hunting for the right gear all the time, not so with this set-up.

There is no problem down low either, so first gear is not too tall. I only went from 4.10 to 3.73 - not to 3.08 or 2.73 which I would consider tall. Sure it is a drop, but not a totally outrageous one. I drove it around lots of hilly stuff in town and had no problems and didn't have to slip the clutch (and my p-brake is not really all that functional - so no p-brake starts were even attempted). You've got to move fast from the brake to the gas, but it didn't mind one bit.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I find random comments like "Keeping it out of the red will be a bit more difficult with this sort of gearing." when the evidence does not support the comment is more dogma than information.

Craig

Just to clarify, I know the phrase "into the red" is usually said when talking revs but my comment was about the vacuum gauge where if you're driving for economy you try and keep it on the green section as much as possible. This gauge can keep you very honest with regard to how it shows up a heavy right foot.
Your engine sounds very impressive and can only get better as the running in continues. As I also said, you need a lot more power to exploit the higher gearing and it sounds like you've got it. Very nice to have.

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it, I suppose. Pretty tough to argue that he could get even better economy with the engine/cam/head he's running. And it cruises all day long at 80+mph without so much as a whimper. My opinion is it's just fine as it is...
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Dale

It would be impressive if it was 245, but it's a 122 with much less frontal area & less weight. I get similar economy from a 142 with a bigger bore, similar cam & head, lower compression & low octane fuel.

So you don't think it's impressive. Again, you're entitled to your opinion. Frankly, I'm not interested in continuing this conversation as it seems nothing will ever be quite good enough in your opinion. I've ridden in and driven the car and I think Craig has done a marvellous job of preparing it and it will only be nicer once it gets the final coat of paint. This is truly one of the nicest 122s on the road. It's unfortunate you can't seem to appreciate that...
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Dale

I think Craig has done a marvellous job of preparing it and it will only be nicer once it gets the final coat of paint. This is truly one of the nicest 122s on the road. It's unfortunate you can't seem to appreciate that...

I appreciate that it's a great car, one of the nicest 122's ever seen, I just don't appreciate being told that I don't know what I'm talking about. Given that Dr.Coburn was here not more than a month ago with pretty basic S.U. questions, I thought he could do with some more tips, but stock HIF's from a stock B20B are perfect for a heavily modified engine apparently as is the distributor. My bad. In my 20+ years of B20 modifying, I've never had one that needed stock needles, springs & timing.

Easy now gents... Paul, sure I had a few questions for a set of carbs that were causing some unforseen problems, that I should have caught and didn't. But I don't think to characterise this as being a simple to solve problem by a newbie would be fair. I've set up my fair share of SU's. These are not STOCK HIF's for heaven's sake, although the distributor is stock and I really should play with the curve.

I have enjoyed our conversations off-line - and have benifited from the collective experience on the board. Knowledge and opinions are all fine with me, in fact that's why I'm here.

Let's take one giant step back from the keyboard and relax for a bit.

Craig,

P.S. Only my student's call me Dr.

These are not STOCK HIF's for heaven's sake

What sort of mods?

This is getting a little repetitious - but they are running BBB needles, have been ported to clean up the casting irregularities, have the decel valves soldered shut, and have the leading edge of the piston chamfered to fit the opening. I could taper the throttle shafts, but this is not a race engine.

This will likely start some further debate about my (and Rhys's) modifications being no good. But the proof is sitting in the bank as cash I didn't spend on fuel on this trip. I'm very happy with the performance and when I get a chance, I'll put it on my wideband and go for a drive and see if the AFR's are what I want.

I just haven't had a chance as I'm getting it ready for paint. I'll indulge in more tuning when that job is done.

…..ported to clean up the casting irregularities, have the decel valves soldered shut, and have the leading edge of the piston chamfered to fit the opening. This will likely start some further debate about my (and Rhys's) modifications being no good.

Which are Rhys’ mods?.

Chamfering the leading edge of the piston doesn’t increase the airflow or horsepower at all, but some say it improves throttle response.

the proof is sitting in the bank as cash I didn't spend on fuel on this trip.

The only things that your good trip mpg tells me is that 1. Your exhaust ports are vastly improved over standard. 2. Your SUs are running OK & the BBB needles are somewhat close.

I could taper the throttle shafts, but this is not a race engine.

Then why did you choose to use expensive race engine conrods & pistons?

Rhys soldered the decel valves shut - the rest is me. So what you are saying is that we got it close right out of the box. I'll take that as a complement (as should Rhys who gave me advice on the needle selection). Sure, there is more to tuning to do - so what. When does the tuning end?

The rods and pistons were acquired as they are lighter than stock, improve dwell at TDC, have the rings closer to the top of the piston etc. The bottom end on the B20 block that I bought had the '75 rods - which as the heaviest and weakest rods that the B20 ever came with. Surely you'd have changed them out in a performance engine?

Can we just let this thread die? It is rather pointless and off topic.

So what you are saying is that we got it close right out of the box.

It means your engine is not far away from a healthy stock B20B.

The rods and pistons were acquired as they are lighter than stock, improve dwell at TDC, have the rings closer to the top of the piston etc.

Rings closer to the top is good for the enviroment, but you don't need a long rod to do that. Lighter than stock is good too, but it makes a lot less difference at the rpms you intend to run.

improve dwell at TDC

What does that mean? Two very negative things that increased rod/stroke ratio does is:
1. Reduce resistance to pinging & detonation.
2. Reduce torque output below peak torque, which is contray to your cam & head choice.

The bottom end on the B20 block that I bought had the '75 rods - which as the heaviest and weakest rods that the B20 ever came with. Surely you'd have changed them out in a performance engine?

I would have got an earlier block, late blocks are a last choice. Noticably soft & don't last as long as the earlier blocks.

Your rods & pistons? They would be fantastic pieces in an engine with 48mm DCOE's, 40 to 50 degrees more cam duration, .100" more lift, better intake ports, big exhaust & running from 5000 to 8000rpms.

Can we just let this thread die? It is rather pointless and off topic.

I'd say it's on topic, you mentioned your engine didn't you?

How the heck would 4.10's deliver better economy? Are we breaking laws of physics now? How is 3.73 too tall? The performance does not suffer at all. Random thoughts are always welcome.

I doubt you would have said that if you knew what a BSFC curve is.

Stock B20B? Sure. Guess the dyno will prove or disprove that theory. Don't hold your breath for that though.

I'm pretty sure you need a longer rod if the pistons have the pin further up. Then again, we're all not as smart as you so I'm likely wrong there.

Bad block? Who cares? Is he going to run it 100,000 miles before he sells it or dies? I highly doubt it.

I was going to respond to some of your other comments too but it's just not worth it. You seem bent on trying to prove in every way possible that Craig has screwed up everything he has done to his car. Not sure if that's jealousy or you're just a bitter old man, but whichever it is, get over it. Too bad there are no moderators here that can either lock this thread or delete it. It really needs to die.

And by the way...your attitude in this thread has convinced a couple of valuable members of this discussion board to pull the pin and move on. That is the unfortunate part of this whole thing. Hope you're happy with yourself...

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Dale

Stock B20B? Sure. Guess the dyno will prove or disprove that theory.

120HP@5200rpms holding until 6000. That's all the Twin HIF6's can do. Switch to a D-Jet manifold, add MegaSquirt & it would likely climb to 140HP@6000rpms.

I'm pretty sure you need a longer rod if the pistons have the pin further up.

Why would you move the pin up?

Bad block? Who cares? Is he going to run it 100,000 miles before he sells it or dies? I highly doubt it.

I thought he built a fuel economy style engine because he was going to enjoy driving it a lot. My bad.

You seem bent on trying to prove in every way possible that Craig has screwed up everything he has done to his car.

Huh? What have I said is screwed up about his car?

Not sure if that's jealousy or you're just a bitter old man, but whichever it is, get over it.

Neither, I just loathe misinformation. I'd hate for people to get the impression that you need anything but a stock bottom end to get 35mpg when in fact, all the fuel economy is coming from good cylinder head work & a five speed transmission.

Indeed. This is, after all, supposed to fun and informative, isn't it? There is room for opinions as well, I hope.

Hi Craig,

I enjoyed chatting with you at the show / swap meet. Looking forward to seeing you and the car again next year!
--
http://dylans122.blogspot.com

Ditto - great to put faces to names. We'll be there again with new paint (getting that going this weekend).

Fantastic pictures and a REALLY nice car..... thanks for sharing with the east coast.


Dan

Craig,

I lack the required adjectives in my vocabulary to adequately show my appreciation.

I'm not a great fan of the wheels, (personal opinion only, I prefer mini-lites or your original widened steels) but I've followed your project from the beginning and have an idea of how much work and hidden detail is in this car.

Outstanding work!

Best wishes,
J.J.

Craig-

Your car is gorgeous! I only can hope to get mine looking even half as nice as your's one day!

-Jared

I'm so envious... I love that area. Great looking car! Makes me want to go through the hassle of using the S60 17" wheels on my 145...

Chris.. no idea, but you can probably right click those red 'X's', copy image location, past into another browser window.

--
-Matt I ♥ my ♂

uh, what all kind of front seats you got in there?

thanks,
floyd r.

The seats are from a 242 front and rear. Getting the rears to fit is a bit of work and the entire project is covered in the archives somewhere. The seat bottom fits right in. The fronts need adapting, but are very similar to 122 seats and a little more plentiful when your old ones wear out.

Sounds like you had a stellar trip!

The attention to detail in your car is great, the one piece front bumper looks awesome by the way. One of the slickest looking 122's ones out there, it still has that original look to it but with a custom twist.

Thanks - that's the look I've been shooting for. We were going to give a prize to people at the show that could list the largest number of things wrong with the car from a stock stand point. That's the fun part, building in many little details that are wrong, but right. The boys at R-Sport International called the car's design "actively lazy". In other words, I've done a lot of things like polishing the outside of the engine block that allow me to be lazy later. Going to a car show 1000 miles away and just having to quickly hose off the block for it to shine is the concept.

The rest of the car is just about getting some of the little things on the detail side working. Bumpers, grills, mirrors, interior, under hood. There is more to come. Paint it next.

Glad you sorted out the carb problems, and I am glad my advise to contact Rhys turned out to be the thing that did the trick. So I guess you owe me now. You can start by telling me (and anyone else who reads your reply) just what it is that you did to your engine block to get it as slick as it is. That is one lovely engine compartment and I recently wrote into the forum looking for the photo you posted of it
so I could ask you that question.

The block was carefully polished in advance of painting. It took a couple of days to get it where I wanted it, but it was worth the work. The engine finish is POR-15 engine paint following the instructions gives a great finish that is, so far, very durable.

That is indeed, a super looking paint job, not just on the engine, but the whole car. Thanks for letting us know the ingredients!

Thanks - I'm picking up paint for the door jams and trunk tomorrow. I'm going to try to get them painted this weekend. Then the entire car is getting a fresh coat of paint.

That looks fantastic! those beach pictures turned out great.

I really envy your engine compartment. It looks so uncluttered - compared to my '75 164E.

Great car! One of the best there. I even took a picture of it.

Those guys at Avalanche are truly passionate about doing things. The quality of workmanship on that car (and I would presume all the others they've done) is absolutely first rate. I hope to get my 130 looking half as nice as theirs before I die.

Craig-

Well didn't put two and two together thay it was your car I was looking at. Yours was about the only car that I got to see that day as selling parts in the swap meet keep me VERY busy all day. I got cleaned up about 3 and your was one of about 3 car left in the main parking lot...

The beach is clearly Cape Kawanda. I hope you stopped into the brew pub (Pelican Pub) across the way from where you drove onto the beach. They have a wonderful cream ale and some times do a Beligum that is to die for...


Chris

Hi Chris,

I didn't put two and two together either - we should wear badges at these events. Kawanda - that's the place...didn't stop in for an ale there, but we've remedied that oversight at many other watering holes. I must say - Oregon has wine and beer to die for.

Craig

Hi Craig,
The cart looks fantastic, I love those wheels. What profile are the tires? How does it ride? What was done to the suspension?
Also, What engine mods do you have? I am curious on how you are getting such good mileage.
Thanks for sharing.
Chris

That's a lot of questions for a single post. The tires are 205-50 R17's. The suspension is from VPD and Bilstein with an additional coil cut off the front of the 250-500 lbs/inch progressives on the front (145 lbs/in rear springs). Standard bilstein's. IPD front and rear sways with SuperPro poly bushings all round. Handles great now that I've got he front end aligned.

The engine mods are rather extensive (or was that expensive!), including B21 FT crank, h-beam rods (longer than stock), custom forged pistons (shorter than stock) (tight squish) a lightened flywheel, VPD head and street performer cam, '75 240 electronic ignition, re-worked HIF SU's by Island Automotion, Ported and polished exhaust and intake manifold, steel timing gears, ARP head studs, and about a thousand little things.

The power makes it way to the ground through an M41 with a 240 rear end with 3.73 gears. A custom built 2.25" stainless mandrel bent exhaust with a couple of magnaflow mufflers keep it "quiet".

That's about all I can think of - it's still a work in progress.