Volvo RWD 200 Forum

My brother has a dodge mid sized truck, 90 something with about 200,000 miles on it. The mechanic wants to replace the engine because two cylinders are not running because of bad intake valves. I have to question how two cylinders stop at the same time due to bad valves. Is this really remotely possible. He claims that if he replaced the valves the rest of them would only follow not too long after so its better to replace the engine. Sounds fishy to me. The truck smokes black a little when it first starts but has had plenty of power.

My brother trusts the mechanic but after all the stories I've heard on here about bad mechanics I have to doubt this one. From what I've heard he's replaced the cap and rotor with no help. My brother is struggling to pay his mortgage and doesn't need to be taken for a ride with this.

Sorry to bring a non 240/volvo situation but I figured there would be some honest opinions on here.

Thank for any info.

Mechanic boyfriend (who would much rather drive a truck than a volvo and used to have a dodge) suggests that the truck is done. He suspects the heads are cracked between the valves and that the bearings in the bottom end are probably shot, and agrees that a new engine would be the only real solution. The better solution is a new truck.

I wouldn't believe a new engine is needed. If either of the valves in any cylinder are leaking, i.e., compression loss, you can't remove the valve cover and see anything usefull. Only if the valve train isn't working the valves open and closed, as in the case of a broken valve spring or bent valve, would you be able to see. You need to run the compression check and / or take the truck to another shop for a second opinion. The black smoke wouldn't be piston ring related as it's most likely unburnt fuel in the cylinder causing the black smoke. Rings or valve seals, either one, would smoke blue. So, the black smoke and the other issue may be related only remotely and that's if the truck has a high pressure constant injection system that would allow fuel to leak down past the intake valves into the cylinders then not get burnt when the cylinder lights due to bad valve(s).

If there's some reason the valves are not working right,it would probably be alot cheaper to just replace that particular cylinder head .Maby even a valve job would be the fix?In my opinion,replacing the whole engine would be a complete waste of money unless there was something else going on.



bruinmechanic

I agree with GOATMAN. Is this a 8 cylinder because if it were less cylinders the power loss would be greater.

Most of the time exhaust valves give up first due to the heat. If the cylinders are using excessive oil there could be more deposits on all valves and the intakes can get gunky and may leak then burn from not being able to get seated all the way for the cooling effect from the head.

A vacuum gage will tell you something for the intake. A comprssion test will tell you all on all cylinders with the rings tested by oil sealing.

Setting the cylinders up on compression and applying compessed air will blow up into the intake if the vale is bad or stuck open from maladjustment.

You said it has plenty of power but may be iding rough, getting poor mileage or starting hard could be a lot more likely another problem or problems. The black smoke for a short time?

Two adjacent cylinders could be just a head gasket. I've heard of people just doing the gasket and valves. Then the rings and lower end give out shortly there after from the increased pressures. Long term excessive wear on those non-firing cylinders. Not so much the other valves are going to get hit any harder.

Phil

Has anyone actually diagnosed what is the root cause? Sounds like they want
to lock n load and throw a engine at it. I would be very cautious, get a
second opinion. my 2 cents.

V6

Sorry, it had good power before the two cylinders developed problems. I worked with him for 4 years and rode in the truck many times on the freeway.

That V6... Doesn't it have separate coils per Cylinder?
Wondering if he is getting any Codes that the Coils are bad.

Black smoke is a Gas Rich condition, not oil.
Compression check is needed for starters. I'm not convinced you have two bad cylinders
--
'75 Jeep CJ5 345Hp ChevyPwrd, two motorcycles, '85 Pickup: The '89 Volvo is the newest vehicle I own. it wasn't Volvos safety , it was Longevity that sold me http://home.no.net/ebrox/Tony's%20cars.htm

I just purchased a 91 245 that was reported to have a bad transmission. I'm 4 hour away and told the to make sure it full of fluid first. They said it was and that two different mechanics could not get it out of the garage and they both said it need a new Transmission. I had driven it in last year and remembered thinking that this Aw71 shifted very strong. Anyway they were going to donate it and they people that was getting the donation knew someone that would give $500 for it and hall it away. knowing the car has great paint and no rust along the new high dollar tires and some IPD goodies, I paid for it quick. Almost a month passed and they wanted it out of the garage. I stopped though on the way home from Myrtle Beach to see what I was going to do to get it home. I added 2 qts of fluid and drove it home. Got home , washed it good add seafoam to the oil and gas and then put my tool box in the car and drove it 1200 miles weekend trip. If does need two tie rods and maybe lower ball joints and the rear transmission seal although its still full of fluid. By the way, those mechanics are in Atlanta, Ga. Sound like your brother is getting ready to bend over for a big one.

Hello,


There is no reason not to believe this mechanic, and there is no reason to believe him either. You need more information about the mechanical condition of the engine before making any accurate supposition.


Goatman

I'm thinking about pulling the valve cover this week and eye the valves. Is there a way to see a non working valve other than manually cranking the engine? I'm guessing thats the only way to really know if he's telling the truth. My brother is really passive when it comes to working on a car. He did it years ago on his vw bug and I guess got burned out by doing it.

Good point Goatman.

Hi,


A compression test would reveal a mechanical fault.


Goatman

it the compression is low add two table spoons of oil to that cylinder. If it comes up it the rings, if not it the vales.

I've got a compression tester, thanks for the pointer. I'm not thinking too well after moving this past weekend. I hate to see him get taken for a $1500 bill when its something else.

Thanks again.

Do the compression test. If the two low compression cylinders are side by side, ie. next to each other there is a high probability the head gasket is blown out between the cylinders, this would also cause black smoke by blowing fuel air mix from the cylinder in the compression stroke into one that is on the exhaust stroke.

jorrell
--
92 245 250K miles, IPD'd to the hilt, 06 XC70, 00 Eclipse custom Turbo setup...currently taking names and kicking reputations!

if it was a Volvo at $1500 labor and parts for a "new" engine I'd say maybe (New as in re-conditioned or new from a junk yard?)..it's a toss up.....but given it's a Dodge with 200K, no way, it's reached the end of it's life cycle. IMO

I bought my kid a nice '92 240 with just under 100,000 for $1,500 last year and it runs great. It's not a truck but the wagons are even easier to find.

My late model Dodge Conversion Van(1/2 ton, still under warranty), is in the shop semiannually. Last summer it left me stranded in Back Swamp NC three days waiting on the Dealer to get a new ECU.

In 25 years I've never been stranded in a brick for even three hours.

PS
We also buy Dodge trucks for work for the last 30 years. The word disposable comes to mind.

Charles

If this were a Volvo, I'd say the mechanic was full of it, and the redblock needed some good maintenance.

This is a recent dodge. It is inherently crap, built to fail, and the mechanic is probably right. Dodge has had so many head problems with their engines it's ridiculous.

Throw it away, don't even waste the money on an engine. Buy a pre 2003 Toyota instead if you need a truck, or a Ford diesel.

If Dodge used cast iron heads on their V6 engine like Chissler did on the 93 4.0 inline six engine, that means there are no (ZERO) valve seats in the head. What they did was machine the mating valve surface into the cast iron head and then sintered / quenched the iron to harden it. Guess what... that approach for the most part covered the warranty period and almost nothing beyond it!

At 140K miles on our 93 Cherokee I pulled the head due to bad compression and took the head to the machine shop. He picked up the head, held it up to the light and said (hold your ears now) "S**T, I can read a book through the GD closed valves!" Then he threw the head in the scrap heap! Three hundred bucks later, I had a good rebuilt head from another donor that had been machined for actual valve seats. 10K miles later, I sold that sucker before it blew up.

The above rant being aired does not change my view though, unless they used the same crappy valve design on the V6, replace the head gasket especially if the two low pressure cylinders are side by side! It could be that simple, and if it ain't call the bone yard for a tow truck to come and take away the carcass. The turkey vultures have to eat too!

jorrell
--
92 245 250K miles, IPD'd to the hilt, 06 XC70, 00 Eclipse custom Turbo setup...currently taking names and kicking reputations!

I guess he found a way to pay for it. Possibly the parents.

I stopped by my brothers yesterday and told him about doing a compression test. He said its already had one. I guess its suppose to be ready to go already by today. Said it will have new water pump and other things like the timing chain. The body is in good shape so I guess for 1,500 bucks he's going to play American Roulette and hope for another 5 years or sell it when the economy turns around. I told him my niece's 244 was going to be available for 2 months and that I've been using mine just fine working doing drywall. But he's got the least amount of patience, I should know after 4 years.

I would have spent a week putting in a rebuilt head myself if I where him but he won't touch anything on a car these days. No patience at all.


For me I got my driver window to close all the way for the first time since I bought the car 5 years ago. Procrastinated that fix until now. Two screws holding the motor to the door where gone. 60 cents later and I have some peace and quiet. Rear brakes replaced too today after hearing sounds from the rear the past week. The cruise control is getting closer to working too. Got 1000 mile road trip planned for next weekend.

Hi Goat,


Would you like to go out on another date tonight?

No thanks, I already had one.


Goatman