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Need advice on which Volvo to buy[850/1995] posted by Andres Jaime on
Thursday, 26 March 1998, at 12:10 a.m.
I am new to this board. This is my first posting, but I hope to become a "regular".
Background:
-----------
We need a new car. We have a baby coming in a few months, and an 8-year old girl already at home. Our second car is a small coupe which clearly is not going to be the car to use when the whole family will go on a weekend trip......
Although we will only be four (at least for now), we occasionally have guests (a couple) from out of town. Therefore, being able to seat 4-5 adults plus 1-2 children is quite advantageous.
What have many people told us ? "Get a minivan", or "get a big 4x4". We do not like driving truck-like vehicles. I believe that this being a Volvo forum, I do not need to explain what are the drawbacks of those type of vehicles........ :-)
So we thought that a station wagon, and preferably one that could sit more than 5 passengers, at least on infrequent occasions, was the way to go. To make the story short, and after looking at several European design wagons, we have narrowed it down to a Volvo 70 wagon.
Now the question is which V70 to buy, and with what options. Because it will be factory ordered, it is up to us to decide what exact combination of options we get.
Questions:
----------
1) What model to choose:
Our two current cars are 5-speed. Generally speaking we prefer them to automatics. We tested the base engine with a 5-speed (we knew in advance that that was not an engine that we would like with an automatic). In normal city driving it felt barely acceptable. And that was with the A/C off and light load. I can just imagine how it must feel merging on a freeway on-ramp with full passenger and cargo load and the A/C on.
Next we tried a GLT. It was sufficiently quick even with its automatic. I would say that it has "enough" acceleration. To put it another way, if that was the most powerful engine offered for the V70, we would indeed buy a V70 GLT.
Then we tried a T-5 automatic. No T-5 5-speed (V70 or S70) was available at the dealer.
Observations:
It was a rainy day. I felt two main differences between the GLT and the T-5. (A) The T-5 has noticeably faster acceleration. If the GLT has "enough" acceleration, the T-5 has "fun to drive" acceleration. We already have a "fun to drive" second car, so this is not THE most important consideration for the wagon. (B) The GLT spun the wheels and jerked the steering wheel at launching from a red light more noticeably than the T-5, although with this wet pavement the T-5 also had poor traction grip (both had TRACS and it was on). Both also had poor braking grip in the rain, the ABS would quick in almost immediately with any serious braking.
Independent of the better wheels and tires of the T-5 (I will come back to that later), what are your opinions between them ? In particular, what do you think about having a "light turbo" engine versus a "full turbo". Which engine should prove more satisfactory in terms of ownership, reliability, required maintenance, longevity, etc. ?
With the options that we would add in the GLT and that are standard on the T-5 (CD and on-board computer), the price difference for us is approx $1300. Is it worth the extra $$$ ? If this was a sports-car chassis/suspension/brakes/tires, I would not hesitate, I would go for the T-5. But I am not sure that we will get to really use the extra HP of the V70 T-5 vs the GLT, given that the GLT already seems to have more power than its handling can manage. Opinions welcome.
2) Another consideration (before the wheels/tires) to decide between them: Is it true that the 1998 V70 T-5 has a different (firmer) suspension than the GLT ? To put it another way: apart from the engine output and the wheel and tire sizes, what other mechanical differences are there between GLT and T-5 ? Are the brakes somewhat different ? What about springs, shocks and/or sway bars ? I also was told that the GLT may have spun more the wheels at launch because it does not have the 1st gear torque limiter of the T-5. Is that correct ?
I know that there is an optional sports suspension for the S70. I am not clear if it is also available (in the US) for the V70. Yes or no ? If yes, what do you think about it ? The dealer said he did not have any car to test drive with it, so I could not get a feel for it.
Since all of you are "experienced" owners of similar vehicles, and I am the newbie making the "foolish" decision :-) to buy one of these Volvos, what other advice would you give me about what to buy / not to buy ?
This post is getting too long. I will ask about wheels and tires in a follow-up post.
Many thanks in advance.
Andres Jaime
ajaime@erols.com
(Looking forward to buying our first Volvo)
P.S.: Should we try to locate a 5-speed T-5 (S70 or V70) to test drive it and know what we could be passing up ? Will it be a really different animal than the automatic T-5 ?
Re: Need advice on which Volvo to buy[850/1995] posted by JTMav on
Thursday, 26 March 1998, at 7:33 a.m.
Having been through a similiar situation I will give you my humble opinion.
We chose the GLT with the 190 LPT(auto tranny)for some of the same reasons in your post. For what we use this vehicle for that combination fit our lifestyle. We are a family of 5 and have the same opinions of SUVs & Minivans as you; they simply were not an option. I never felt the base engine really was a viable choice, especially if you fill the car with people(3 boys 15,13&9) and anything else the car was simply underpowered for my taste. On the other hand our other car is a Saab 9000 CSE Turbo with plenty of power and "fun" to drive so the T-5 seemed a bit like overkill. I believe the T-5 engine is beefed up to endure the stress of the High Pressure Turbo, exactly to what degree I am not sure(someone here will know). I think after 7000 miles the 190hp lpt is a great engine, I never feel the car is in need of more torque or acclerating power any where on the curve and the car really is fun to drive.
As far as options we chose leather and heated seats, in dash CD player, rear third seat(strongly recommend to a "growing family). I particuliarly like the standard alloys on the GLT and the Michelins will be more than adequate. I am going to add the fog lights myself and probably a wood grain dash(from Joshua Tree).
You have what I would call a quality problem, either way good luck and I hope you enjoy your new Volvo.
JTMav
98 V70 7k
94 Saab 9000 CSE T 88k
Re: Need advice on which Volvo to buy[850/1995] posted by Bob Vernon on
Thursday, 26 March 1998, at 9:50 a.m.
Well, I've owned a few Volvos in the past (68 122S, 70 142S, 74 144GL) and will likely own a few more, I'm sure. I have a lot of respect for Volvo and I know this is a Volvo forum - but - I've got to say that Volvo isn't the ONLY European choice for a decent wagon. I live over in Italy (courtesy of the U.S. Navy) and there are lots of wagons here. There's a great BMW 3 series wagon that unfortunately isn't shipped to U.S. shores. The 5 series BMW touring wagon is beautiful but way out of wack for price, I feel. The two you might consider are the Audi A4 Avant and and the VW Passat wagon. Both supposedly can be had with AWD. The A4 is a bit smaller than the Volvo but a very sporting package. Passat has had a wagon in Europe since the introduction of the new Passat design overseas about two years ago. I understand that VW will be shipping the Passat wagon to the U.S. in a couple of months. The GLX V-6 model would be a worthy competitor to the V70 for at least $5000 less. Much of the mechanicals under the Passat skin are really Audi - take a look!
Re: Need advice on which Volvo to buy[850/1995] posted by Crispin Glymph on
Thursday, 26 March 1998, at 1:11 p.m.
I only have one car. '97 850R Wagon. I wanted a serious fun to drive car. My car only came in an automatic transmition, but I would have really wanted the stick.
If I was in your shoes, I would seriously consider the GLT. Softness of ride and a good/great engine that can get out of its own way. My car came with all of the options. The ones I used most are CD player, Heated Seats, fog lights, roof rack w/eurorails in that order.
Re: Need advice on which Volvo to buy[850/1995] posted by pat on
Thursday, 26 March 1998, at 1:18 p.m.
I was in the same situation about four months ago. Baby on the way and the current car getting old. My wife had always wanted a volvo sedan. I convinced my wife to get the wagon.
From the beginning we knew we'd get the T5. We also knew it would be 5spd. The automatic just takes to much of the fun away. Our other car is 5spd also. We did test drive an automatic S70T5 but we still decided on a 5spd. I have heard 5spds are rare.
We both like the car very much. Depending upon your current ride, you may think the ride quality of the T5 is stiff. It may be mostly due to the 16inch tires. We have the stock suspension. The ride doesn't bother me at all except on certain bumps. Some people complain about the v/s70s rattling. I don't have any rattles that I can tell. I do notice that items within the car tend more to make noise than the car itself (cd's in the door,glasses in the console,etc). We drove a regular loaner while they were changing my oil, and performance was dismal.
As for engine longevity, once you have a turbo, you have the added expense of a turbo. Low,high pressure, you still have a turbo that will eventually were out. The key is proper oil changes and letting it cool down before turning your car off if you just got done using it.
As for TRACS and other AWD options, well, I had always been holding out for AWD but why was I? When I really thought about it, I've never been in a situation where I needed it. It hurts performances,mileage, and increases maintance. (although this falls audi s6 looks neat) Performace I can use almost everywhere. TRACS, while not perfect, has still easily pulled me away from stops way ahead of everyone else.
As for the CD, I installed an alpine changer myself in the glovebox for $410 total. The computer we pretty much leave on temp. If it were optional on the T5, I probably wouldn't have got it.
Hope this helps
pat
Re: Need advice on which Volvo to buy[850/1995] posted by Brace on
Thursday, 26 March 1998, at 2:11 p.m.
We've owned a V70 (non-turbo) since June and like it very much for a family car. We have two children, 5 and 1 yrs.. It's a GTAS with leather, C/D, sunroof. We didn't get the 3rd seat because it seemed very cramped for even my 5 yr old. Note that the rear of the 3rd seat almost leans forward, and keep in mind that the rear area of a V70 is about 5 inches shorter than that of a V90, leaving very little leg room. But, I suppose it would be fine for short trips. Be sure to load some kids into one before you pay the extra $1k.
The car handles and rides well, but is a bit underpowered, therefore I would recommend at least getting the low boost turbo. We also like the lay out and viewability of the dash. Instuments have a nice contrast without being distracting. Front and passenger seats are very comfortable.
The V70 Cross Country offers a lot of options standard for a good price and has some of the exterior and interior features that will help protect it from children. The top of the rear bumper , side moundings, and rocker panels are not painted, and the interior uses a berber (sp) carpet. It also has load leveling shocks. Imagine loading and unloading kids into the 3rd seat over a painted plastic bumper cover.
Anyway, I think you'll be happy with which ever V70 you buy. It is a nice family wagon.
Re: Need advice on which Volvo to buy[850/1995] posted by mw on
Thursday, 26 March 1998, at 3:05 p.m.
We have a 1995 854 Turbo (they kept changing those designations) with 30K on it. It has been a GREAT car so far (and the 4th Volvo for me - just keep changing that oil, my 244 made it to 325K without an overhaul and still wasn't burning oil when it was totaled in an accident). Real world gas mileage is 29 highway and 21 around town.
It has the sport suspension on it, which seems to stiffen up the ride and make cornering that much more fun. It also makes the potholes feel that much bigger. Only two caveats - the 16" ZR tires and rims are high dollar to replace. One of our rims has a slight dimple in the lip, my independent mechanic says that new rims are $450 a corner from Volvo, and the Michelin Pilots are around $250 each. Once upon a time, Volvo offered your choice of 15" or 16" wheels. If this is not your "fun" car and you're hauling 5 people around consistently, I would go with the 15" wheels. My mechanic also insisted that we change (rather than top off) the automatic transmission fluid at 30K, which we did.
Would I buy another? Definetly. I have driven a friend's S70 GLT and was impressed with its performance. I'm looking at the V70 GLT (AWD?) when my Saab needs to retire.
Re: Need advice on which Volvo to buy[850/1995] posted by RCC on
Thursday, 26 March 1998, at 3:39 p.m.
My answer to the conundrum was to order the V70T5M with cloth seats (leather is extra) and 5-speed (the automatic is also extra). The financial damage was only about the same as a low-pressure turbo/AT with leather! I also ordered the handling package and TRACS. The dealer discouraged me from ordering the ultra-low profile tires, from what I have heard that may have been excellent advice, NJ/NYs infamous potholes would have taken their toll. I also got a set of four studded snow tires on steel rims. I would order it exactly the same way if I had to do it again. It is the most delightful car to drive that I've ever owned! Proof positive that this is a GREAT car: My wife (Mercury Grand Marquis) absolutely hates the thing! (She also hates my Porsche!)
Re: Need advice on which Volvo to buy[850/1995] posted by Paul Elliott on
Friday, 27 March 1998, at 9:30 a.m.
>>My mechanic also insisted that we change (rather than top off) the automatic transmission fluid at 30K, which we did. <<
Was your 'mechanic' a Volvo Dealer? When I asked my Volvo dealer about changing the ATF, they flat out refused to do it, saying that Volvo doesnt want that service performed! Surprising since at $70/hr, they could make a decent business out of ATF renewals! Yet , no go....I guess they feel that if something goes wrong, and Volvo finds out that they changed the ATF, then they would lose Corporate support for the problem!
Re: Need advice on which Volvo to buy[850/1995] posted by mw on
Friday, 27 March 1998, at 10:56 a.m.
My friend, the mechanic, works at an independent Volvo shop, the car was at the dealer (Don Beyer Volvo) to get a dead battery replaced under warranty and the 30K service (rather than take the car to two shops). They didn't have a problem with my request for changing the AT fluid...
Re: Need advice on which Volvo to buy[850/1995] posted by Ray Niblett on
Thursday, 26 March 1998, at 3:27 p.m.
We have two Volvos: A 95 850 GLT wagon (automatic, non-turbo, 33K miles)
and an S70 T-5 (manual, 6K miles).
The wagon has a much stiffer suspension then the S70 -- I believe
Volvo has softened them up a bit over the years to deal with the
complaints. The wagon also rattles (a lot). I suspect V70s should
be improved in the area of rattles.
I believe the 70 series GLT and T-5 have the same suspension. Both
can upgrade to the sport suspension. I would not want the sport
suspension on my T-5 (yes, it is softer then our 95 wagon but it is
much more comfortable on long drives and handles well as is). I'd
say the T-5 standard suspension is a very good compromise between
ride comfort and handling.
After living with the T-5 manual transmission for a year I have
concluded I probably would have been happy with an automatic. The
manual is nice but in the San Francisco bay area it is just not that
fun unless you drive between midnight and 3 am (about the only times
the streets are not crowded). Also, the auto on our wagon has been
trouble-free and works well.
Options: I like the T-5 heated seats (miss them on the wagon). I
never use the sunroof and the one on the wagon rattles (I think you
can order a car from the factory without a sunroof). The power seat
on the passenger side is standard with the T-5. Our wagon has a
manual seat and it works just fine so I would make that an issue.
The trip computer is nice. If the car does not have it the dealer
can activate it at a later time (all 70 series have the computer
pre-installed). The stock radio is OK but the stock CD player is
very good (sound quality wise). The T-5 CD player did recently break and
won't accept a CD (but that will be covered under warranty). We have
a CD changer in the wagon (mounted in the rear) but it skips due to
the stiff suspension (and location over the wheels) so it does not
get much use (but 500lbs in the back and it work as the ride smoothes
out). I'd keep the CD in the dash and would not put a changer in the
rear. I don't care for the rear optional rear wings.
The leather seating in the wagon has held up well to our two kids
(now aged 3 and 6). It wipes clean and looks like new. The front
seat leather in the wagon has a few deep wrinkles. I noticed that
the 70 series leather is pulled much tighter across the seats so I
don't expect it to develop the loose/deep wrinkles that the older
wagon has. One thing, the seat backs are not leather and puncture
easily -- be careful when you load the wagon with 10 ft. gutters or
lumber (I learned that the hard way).
We have a roof rack and have used it to move lumber that won't fit
in the back of the wagon. Dealer included it with the car. I'd
recommend one if you plan on using the wagon as something of a
pickup substitute (which ours replaced).
The T-5 engine is quite different. It has thicker cylinder walls
(reducing engine displacement to 2.3 liters). Forged pistons,
intercooler, sodium filled valves, some additional plumbing to keep
the turbo spooled up between shifts (more important with a manual),
etc. http://www.volvousa.com/ has details (click on Power). T-5
engine may last longer then the light pressure turbo depending on how
hard you use/abuse it. My experience with the engine was one initial
problem (oil leaking from the piston cooling oil setup -- another
turbo only item to handle additional stress). Dealer fixed it in
minutes. Lately the turbo has become much louder and I need to get
that looked at (others have complained about this, too). I checked
the owners warranty manual and the turbo is covered for 7 years/70000
miles so I'm not too concerned.
Your observations about the chassis/traction being limiting are spot
on. On the T-5 it is very easy to spin the ties (you can do it at
60mph in 3rd gear by flooring it on dry pavement). TRACS is really
needed with the T-5 (standard) and I suspect you would want it on a
GLT. Note that TRACS shuts off above 25mph.
I'm surprised you noticed more tourqe steer in the GLT. Maybe the
smaller tires make a difference?
I have only activated the ABS once (and I had the brake pedal to the
floor in an emergency stop). I've been happy with it in that I have
found it never kicks in during normal driving (including rain). This
is true for both of our cars (with the 95 being a bit easier to
modulate -- the brakes on the 95 seem to have a slightly better feel
to me).
Our cars are dark green and dark blue. I'd get white if I got another
one. The dark colors show the scratches easily (and the clearcoat
seems to scratch easily). I've seen the V70 in white and it is a
handsome car.
If you want the CD player, trip computer and plan on larger tires
then the T-5 is probably a deal at an extra $1300.
One thing I have been watching is the 98 VW Passat. If they make a
wagon version available that would be a nice car. Think of it as an
Audi A5 wagon (since the 98 Passat is basically a stretched Audi A4) with
a VW price. The A4 wagon is nice, too, but a bit too small for us to
consider as a replacement for a Volvo wagon.
Re: Need advice on which Volvo to buy[850/1995] posted by Steven Sallberg on
Thursday, 26 March 1998, at 7:05 p.m.
I think Ray summed up pretty well!
You could be happy with a GLT or a T-5.
I recommend you take both cars on a test drive of your design. Same open space, hills and ESPECIALLY bumpy, beat up roads. Take keys, tools,tape measure, coffee...anything that rattles and bumps and otherwise commands your attention when you drive (a stroller in back would be perfect). I have spent too much time, energy and dollars trying to soften the ride of my 1996 855 Turbo. I have heard and hope that the V series offers more comfort with it's outstanding performance. And as a family car I suggest you stay away from low profile tires and optional performance suspension (if available).
Also, regarding color choices, be aware that Volvo Black and White are single stage paints...no clear coat.
Good Luck!
Sallbergs, Aimee, Andrew(age 6), Steven
1983 528E w/250K
1996 855 Turbo w/15K
1998 VW Cabrio w/.5K
Re: Need advice on which Volvo to buy - trip computer[850/1995] posted by Brace on
Friday, 27 March 1998, at 6:32 a.m.
You mentioned that the trip computer is preinstalled on all V70's. Does this mean that activation by the dealership is all that is required. I recently noticed a sale on trip computers at a local dealership but the price was in excess of $200. Seems a bit excessive for a simple (?) activation. Any info on this would be appreciated.
Re: Need advice on which Volvo to buy[850/1995] posted by Brace on
Friday, 27 March 1998, at 8:29 a.m.
You're right, but I guess you knew that. All V70's do come with the trip computer, but if it's not already activated the dealership charges ~$370 to do so. ~$298 of that goes to Volvo for the 4 digit pin code to activate.
Re: Need advice on which Volvo to buy[850/1995] posted by Paul Elliott on
Friday, 27 March 1998, at 9:42 a.m.
>>I checked the owners warranty manual and the turbo is covered for 7 years/70000 <<
I've never seen that in my '95 854T manuals, but tell me where to look, and I'll try harder. Is it part of a generalized Power Train warranty, or a separate warranty for the turbo? Let me know so I can try again to find it..thanks
Re: 70K turbo warrenty CA and MA only[850/1995] posted by Ray Niblett on
Friday, 27 March 1998, at 11:02 a.m.
Sorry, I looked at it closer. It is for California and
Massachusetts. This is in the "Volvo 1998 Warrenty and Service
records Information" booklet (the blue one).
Emission Parts List - California and Massachusetts
The components listed in the chart below are covered under the
California and Massachusetts Emission System Warrenty for warrantable
repairs up to seven (7) years or 70,000 miles, whichever comes first:
Parts Comments
Intake Manifold All
Exhaust Manifold All
Three-way Catalytic Converter (TWC) All
Motoronic Engine Control Module (ECM) All
Mass Air Flow (MAF) Sensor All
Fuel Tank All
Turbo CHarger S70/V70, GLT, T5 and C70
Charge Air Coler (CAC) S70/V70, GLT, T5 and C70
(I did'nt know the GLT had a Charge Air Coler.)
It is not clear if labor is covered.
There are also warrenties covering problems if the vehicle fails
an inspection.
Re: 70K turbo warrenty CA and MA only[850/1995] posted by pat on
Friday, 27 March 1998, at 11:26 a.m.
Yeh! I'm in MA and that note caught my eye yesterday. However, I assume if I move out of MA, then I'm back to the original 4year/50000 or does its still stick?
Re: 70K turbo warrenty CA and MA only[850/1995] posted by Paul Elliott on
Friday, 27 March 1998, at 4:47 p.m.
OK, but since its in the emissions booklet, my assumption is that what they are covering is not a turbo breakdown per se, but a failure to meet emissions standard.