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Filter Air Intake Options?[850/1995] posted by Han Chung on
Wednesday, 18 March 1998, at 12:47 p.m.
Hi y'all,
What options do I have in terms of getting faster and efficient air in through the filter. I have K&N filter now and last night I was looking under the hood and the current factory setup only allows a little opening for air intake right next to the radiator behind the grille and it's all jammed in. Just curious to hear what modifications are possible in this area. Or does it matter to have a small or large intake opening...
Thanks
Han.
97 855T White... + some stuff.
Re: Filter Air Intake Options?[850/1995] posted by Andy on
Thursday, 19 March 1998, at 2:20 a.m.
Rather than mess with the factory (U.S.) normally-aspirated air filter box (aside from the K&N filter), I have successfully overridden the thermostatic flap valve inside.
Remove the air box from the car. Take the two halves apart. Carefully remove the small canister-shaped thermostatic motor.
As I recall, when air inside the box is too cold, the pin at the end of the motor contracts into the motor, causing the flapper connected to the hot air duct (from the exhaust header cover) to add hot air. So, I figured, if I could make the system think that the pin is always extended, only cold air from next to the radiator will be ingested.
I added a length of small-diameter rubber hose over the pin. Now, the flapper is forced to the cold-air-only position. I also figured that the side benefit is a slight pressurization of the air box at high road speed.
Most American cars have done away with the heated air system for fuel-injected engines. And, living in southern California, it never gets that cold, anyway.
I don't know whether this will help with a turbo engine, but it can't hurt. Good Luck amd let us know your thoughts.
ANDY
94 850 76k miles
Re: Filter Air Intake Options?[850/1995] posted by Paul Elliott on
Thursday, 19 March 1998, at 12:35 p.m.
>>Rather than mess with the factory (U.S.) normally-aspirated air filter box <<
But Han has the Turbo. I thought that the B5234T cars did not have arrangement to heat up the cold air...
Re: Filter Air Intake Options?[850/1995] posted by Han Chung on
Thursday, 19 March 1998, at 3:44 p.m.
Paul could be right... Now what? Last night I was looking at it and at the front, there's a molded piece of plastic front of the radiator to which the intake air duct connects to. It's a peculiar design where it only leaves out a little opening air flow from underneath. I wonder why they did it that way. I think they were thinking of bloking direct air intake by making it flow through upward in instead of straight in to block road junk(stones, paper, plastic bags, deer, ...). But there's the grille...???? Guess what, I took it off with the theory of making air flow volume larger and mostly head on flow. I don't think it did much noticeable changes. This maybe my imagination, but engine reving sounds a bit louder. Did I accomplish anything? Well, if anything, I just made my car that much lighter.... car - plastic piece= lighter...
What y'all think?
Han
97 855T White...soon to be turning/blinking Euro style.
Re: Filter Air Intake Options?[850/1995] posted by Greg Coffeng on
Thursday, 19 March 1998, at 9:47 p.m.
Han,
I was just looking at the same setup today. I cannot figure out why they
have intentionally covered the opening with the extra piece of plastic.
Perhaps that is not the limiting factor in getting air into the engine.
Probably the air filter slows the air down regardless of the size of
the opening.
-Greg
98 V70 T5 (...without any "stuff"... until IPD starts selling the sway bars again
Re: Filter Air Intake Options?[850/1995] posted by Han Chung on
Friday, 20 March 1998, at 12:40 a.m.
Greg,
So, I don't know either. I was just messing with it the other night and was curious about it. I still have the little piece off and seems to be o.k.
Hey, in the mean time why don't you get the IPD Sport Exhaust? Just a thought. I planning of getting it as soon as I get some $$$ together.
Han.
97 855T white... plus some goodies.
Re: Filter Air Intake Options?[850/1995] posted by Peter on
Friday, 20 March 1998, at 10:49 a.m.
I don't have an 850, nor am I familiar with your specific setup, but it's likely that the reason this piece of plastic is mounted on your airbox is to control noise. There MAY be some small performance gain by removing it, although whatever advantage you see will be at higher revs. I did the same thing to my Honda and felt no difference.
Then, I removed the stock assembly and replaced it with a cone shaped K&N with a velocity stack type intake and felt a HUGE difference. Again, the gain was at 4500 rpm and above. But... the car is A LOT noisier. The intake roar is the dominant sound whenever I accelerate hard.
Re: Filter Air Intake Options?[850/1995] posted by Greg Coffeng on
Friday, 20 March 1998, at 4:57 p.m.
Han,
Yes, I believe I will put on the exhaust system eventually, money being an issue with me as well (I should try and pay off the original car loan too).
The mods I'm thinking about are as follows.
- oversize brake kit, which will require new 17" wheels, new tires, and basically loads of money.
- IPD anti-roll bars.
- upgraded ECU (strongly recommended by our friend Paul).
- upgraded exhaust.
The brakes are somewhat important to me because I would like to take the car out on the track with some of the track schools. It would be nice to have brakes which could handle the extra heat of track usage. Then next would be the
anti-roll bars, also a safety issue on the track.
The exhaust and ECU fall next in the list of priorities because they don't necessarily make the car any safer, just more bitchin'. But it's definitely getting on my car at some point.
-Greg
Re: Filter Air Intake Options?[850/1995] posted by Han Chung on
Friday, 20 March 1998, at 11:18 p.m.
Greg,
I'm also thinking of the same upgrades. Even the lowering springs. I don't want to look like those street racin' hondas and acuras, though. No muggen power for me. Any ways, do you know any tracks in your area? have you driven on tracks before? I wanted to do that.
By the way, where do you live? I'm in Southern California.
Anyways, my next addition will be the IPD Sport exhaust. wish me luck.
Thanks
Han.
Re: Filter Air Intake Options?[850/1995] posted by Greg Coffeng on
Saturday, 21 March 1998, at 1:36 p.m.
Han,
I live in the San Francisco Bay Area. I've been to a "street survival" school at Laguna Seca Racetrack in Monterrey (about 1 hour from my home). There was no actual driving on the track for this school. The entire lesson was in the "paduck", but our instructor took us out for a few laps on the track, and explained some technique. There's also Sears Point Raceway up in Napa Valley, also about 1 hour away from me. Both of these tracks have a track school called "Track Time" which comes through once or twice a year. This school is mostly beginners who just want to open up the cars without getting arrested. From what I hear, the technique they teach you is not as comprehensive as the BMW CCA or
the SCCA, but its worthwhile for people who really enjoy track driving. I think to participate, you need to complete a track safety seminar prior to signing up, and you need to borrow/rent/buy an auto racing helmet (more expensive than bike helmets because they are flameproof as well).
I learned most of this from a friend of mine who's very serious about racing. He does autocross and track days quite frequently with the BMW CCA as well as some other clubs (like track time). Incidently, when he first started on the track with his BMW 535, the first modification he found necessary was brakes. He found that after a while, the brakes would start to fade, and he would have to back off on diving into corners. Not much fun if you've already shelled out
300 - 500 dollars for one of these track days. He tried everything, one piece at a time. First adding stainless steel lines and racing brake fluid, upgraded pads, cross drilled rotors, then oversize rotors (with new bigger wheels) and
finally, ducting air directly to the rotors. I should add here that his track technique has been honed over many years and he dives into corners that would be suicidal for me. But my wagon is at least as heavy as his beemer, so I would likely experience the some degradation in braking ability, although not as quickly as he did.
I'm just very relieved that the upgraded brakes are available for the volvos. He has been bugging me to get on the track with him for quite some time. It's good to hear others are interested in this as well.
cheers,
-Greg
Re: Filter Air Intake Options?[850/1995] posted by Paul Elliott on
Friday, 20 March 1998, at 12:43 p.m.
Han, have you noticed any difference since you removed that plastic piece? I'm going to have another look at mine after work today, because Im not sure I know which piece you're referring to...Are you talking about the scoop which faces downward in front of the radiator? And if you take it off, isnt the hose opening, which would then do the breathing without benefit of scoop, also facing downward?
Re: Filter Air Intake Options?[850/1995] posted by Han Chung on
Friday, 20 March 1998, at 11:26 p.m.
Paul,
I can hear more of the engine and in terms of responsiveness or speed.... ???? dunno.
Another thing is that when I come home and into my garage and get off the car, I can definately smell something different than the normal car fume. and it'snot the heat from brake pads either. it's from the exhaust for sure. I don't know if it's because of the check engine light or the plastic piece.
what do you think? can it be the turbo?
".Are you talking about the scoop which faces downward in front of the radiator?"... YES.
Well I guess it doesn't make much difference in opening size, but the next plastic hose that connects to that first piece does open up straight forward. Only thing is that it might be partially covered by the nose plastic? housing for the radiator right behind the grille. I think i'll put that piece back where it was.
I'm sure that when I get the IPD Sport exhaust, that little piece of plastic won't make a difference anyways.
ciao.
Han.
Re: Filter Air Intake Options?[850/1995] posted by Paul Elliott on
Monday, 23 March 1998, at 9:05 a.m.
>>Well I guess it doesn't make much difference in opening size, but the next plastic hose that connects to that first piece does open up straight forward.<<
Han, it looks like if you remove the plastic piece, which is the piece which goes through mounting, connecting the 'under hood area' to the outside, and surrounds the radiator and fan, then you will be left with a forward facing hose, but when which does not extend into the outside area. In other words, much of the air looks like it will be blocked by this 'wall' holding the fan and stuff...Anyway, what it looks like you are trying to do is create a small 'Ram Air' type system, by forcing the air into a forward facing scoop....
I dont think theres much point in doing this, because its your turbocharger which is forcing the air. I've read where this intake system has been well studied and optimized by Volvo, and I dont think that anything you've mentioned is likely to provide much benefit, and may actually cause problems, if you inadvertantly keep it from breathing the way it should.
>>I think i'll put that piece back where it was. <<
Now you're talking!! I think you'll like your sport exhaust. Have you been running the ECU with the stock exhaust? I know that IPD says its ok, but Thomas strongly objects....what have you found? The sound of the sport exhaust took a bit of getting used to for while its definitely louder than stock, its a sound which I no longer notice . Under hard acceleration, it sounds great. The rest of the time, it sounds like a performance car should...To me, the stock exhaust was devoid of character.
Re: Filter Air Intake Options?[850/1995] posted by Han Chung on
Monday, 23 March 1998, at 4:46 p.m.
Paul,
I put back the little plastic nose piece where it belongs. Although I still think the opening is very small. I guess it's like a small hose nosel vs. large one where the small has the effect of an intense air jet where as the large just pours.
I don't have the ECU upgrade yet nor the Sport Exhaust. My next upgrade will be the exhaust though.
About the air intake situation, I only found that engine is louder and unusual exhaust smell. Although I still have to have the smell thing check out this wednesday at the dealer.
Thanks.
Han
Re: Filter Air Intake Options?[850/1995] posted by Paul Elliott on
Tuesday, 24 March 1998, at 8:28 a.m.
Yea,,, I think the 'speed' of the air flow, as sometimes influenced by the size of the 'pipe' has a direct bearing on the torque produced, at least in exhaust systems.
Is the smell like sulfur? At various times mine has this, and I attributed it to the cat....It's gotten much less noticeable lately, though, on its own accord.
>> I don't have the ECU upgrade yet nor the Sport Exhaust. <<
My mistake...For some reason I thought you had done this already...Probably because you're the first I've found to spend the money on the suspension (ie Bilsteins at that faaaabulous price!) before power...Well, my friend, you're in for a biiig treat. I did my exhaust first, about 6 mos before I did my ECU, also. On its own, I did not notice much of a power increase with the exhaust alone. I guess its pretty hard to feel a 5% increase. But then, when you pop in the 'magical' ECU, if youre like me, you'll immediately feel that this car is what you've been looking for all these years...
Re: Filter Air Intake Options?[850/1995] posted by Paul Elliott on
Thursday, 19 March 1998, at 4:39 p.m.
Han, from my feeble memory, I recall that from the air box on the intake side is a plastic hose which sort of snakes its way to an opening in front of the radiator, where it sort of flattens out a little (or maybe not..) into a downward facing scoop .....Its big enough for me to stick my entire hand into, which I've done to make sure its clear....I dont know to what you're comparing, but to me it seems plenty large....Steve at VCOA, or was it Paul Grimshaw from 2 books fame, advised me against doing anything with the air box like removing it, saying that the setup acts like a Hemholz Resonator, and helps draw a maximum amount of air into the car, the purpose of which would be defeated by removing.... Also, those folks who replace the whole assembly with one of those conical K&N units, will be drawing hot engine air into their systems...I dont know why anyone would want their engines to breathe this stuff...seems counter intuitive, and maybe counter productive... Youve got the right idea about at least looking 'outside' for a solution.....but I've just heard that our breathing systems, including the stock paper filter, even though I use a K&N cartridge too, are more than adequate, and breathe as well as no filter at all..something about pressure tests with water, and so on and so on.....
Re: Filter Air Intake Options?[850/1995] posted by Han Chung on
Thursday, 19 March 1998, at 5:03 p.m.
I guess I better put that front piece where it belongs. It just seemed so logical that this piece is in the way for free air flow.
" I recall that from the air box on the intake side is a plastic hose which sort of snakes its way to an opening in front of the radiator, where it sort of flattens out a little (or maybe not..) into a downward facing scoop .....Its big enough for me to stick my entire hand into, which I've done to make sure its clear...." ... exactly what I meant. At the time looked pretty small to me. I'll check it out. I was thinking of disconnecting the entire front opening piece and breathe from inside. then i thought didn't want to mess with air temperature and quality although I see a lot of open cone filters advertised as supposedly racing components. I still think that drawing air from outside is the best thing. I was even thinking of putting a side grille on the fender or hood and redirect the air intake system. Too much work. anyways...
Thanks for the info.
Han.
Re: Filter Air Intake Options?[850/1995] posted by Vincent Eng on
Monday, 23 March 1998, at 2:58 p.m.
Han -
I had the the filter intake hose removed for the past week (the mechanic for some odd reason for got to put it back on.). I did notice that the engine made more noise -- but unfortunately I didn't feel a power difference. The hot air from the engine could be the trade-off with the increase air intake diameter. If you have any additional info on this please forward.
Vince
95 854T5R
94 854T
88 Jaguar XJ-S H&E
84 Ferrari 308 GTSi
Re: Filter Air Intake Options?[850/1995] posted by Han Chung on
Monday, 23 March 1998, at 4:52 p.m.
Vince,
I took off the very first piece in front of the radiator which hooks up to the piece you'r missing. So, I was breathing fresh air. Nevertheless, not effective and from what Volvo and other sources Paul refers to, the system is very effective as it is. I'll just keep it as it was. I'll do something better than messing around with breathing better. I'll mess with the other end of the car... "IPD Sport Exhaust System."
Thanks,
Han
97 855 T White, .....+ some.
Re: Filter Air Intake Options?[850/1995] posted by asz on
Wednesday, 25 March 1998, at 11:24 p.m.
Han,
Have you ever heard of Spiral Max? Check out their website...
http://web.idirect.com/~spiralma/ This is a neat little device...and if it does as it claims, it might be something worth looking into! My brother has already ordered one for his 3000Gt and I've been thinking about trying it out on my 96 850 R.
Spiral Max
Re: Filter Air Intake Options?[850/1995] posted by Terence Lui on
Sunday, 29 March 1998, at 1:37 a.m.
If the spiral max device you mentioned is similar to the Tornado air management system, it would probably be useless. Car and Driver put that device in their BMW 540i 6 speed and found that it doesn't add anything to their car when tested on the dyno. But see what your brother thinks, maybe it works!
Terence Lui