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850 motronic upgrades[ALL/1988] posted by Sean Kilduff on
Wednesday, 21 January 1998, at 8:21 p.m.
I recently upgraded my 96 850 Turbo with the ipd/TME chip and exhaust. Anyone who also upgraded w/this system I'd like to hear your thoughts and recommendations as to service/troubles/mileage&increased performance. Also, any other upgrades you can recommend, ie. suspension, etc. Please e-mail me or post to this site. Thanks in advance!
Re: 850 motronic upgrades[ALL/1988] posted by Terence Lui on
Wednesday, 21 January 1998, at 11:36 p.m.
Well by now you should be able to feel the extra power you get with the IPD chip (especially with "sports" mode in the trans) The service/trouble/milage should not be different from what you should be doing anyway with or without the chip upgrade, ie. turbo cool down, oil-change every 2.5-3K miles and use synthetic motor oil. For other modification ideas, just check out my 850 page with the link below. You should get a brief idea on what other stuff are available for out cars.
Good luck.
Terence Lui
'95 854T with Mr. Little white teddy bear at the back seat.
My 850 turbo page
Re: 850 motronic upgrades[ALL/1988] posted by Paul Elliott on
Thursday, 22 January 1998, at 8:55 a.m.
Terence, did I ever ask you: how do you handle the ATF service? Ie, to you follow Volvo's recommendation of not doing an ATF service unless you flag an ATF fault code for over heating? Or do you tend more toward the TME recommendation of 25,000 mile replacements with synthetic?
Re: 850 motronic upgrades[ALL/1988] posted by Terence Lui on
Thursday, 22 January 1998, at 4:56 p.m.
Paul, when I had my oil change at 23,000miles (I have an oil change every 2.5k-3k miles or every 3 months), I asked my dealer if I should (or should I say I wanted to) change my ATF. They said:" Well, Volvo didn't say we have to do it, but if you want, sure!" They told me I am the first customer asked for a ATF change in the 850, but they really don't see any problem changing the ATF. So they changed it and charge me the ATF and labor similiar to oil change.
Terence Lui
Re: 850 motronic upgrades[ALL/1988] posted by Paul Elliott on
Friday, 23 January 1998, at 7:53 a.m.
Terence, My Volvo dealer is the number one rated dealer in the region for cust sat in their srvc dept, and are very conscientious, and are the ones I use to install those performance upgrades I dont tackle myself (like sway bars and exhaust system..although I did do the Repcos and oil changes myself!). They absolutely refuse to do the ATF service, saying that Volvo tells them its unnecessary on our model. While I respect their integrity about this, since it would be a nice hunk of change for them to pick up each time they would recommend it, I'm not sure I understand why they wont do the service on request...They have no problem installing IPD parts, for instance, and no problem with any other service....I guess they feel that should a mechanic, say, overfill the system, and cause damage, since Volvo does not recommend the service, maybe they would have no recourse from them in the way of help?! I dont know...Anyway, although it really probably doesnt need it, I may do it myself, at about 25,000 mi or so...It looks like its just a matter of jacking it up, loosening the {large, ie, >= 21 mm!} drain plug, catching the 3 qts or so which are not in the torque converter, and refilling with Mobil 1 Dexron III. Actually, this will be a dilution process rather than a total replacement, since more than half will still remain in the TC. But by diluting the mix with half Mobil 1, I should, I imagine, lengthen and strengthen the life of the new mixture. I hear that its crucial to not over or underfil, even by a little. And you would need a very thin funnel tube, since the ATF tube is so skinny.
Have you ever had your motor oil analyzed? I had mine done after driving 5,000 miles with Quaker State Synquest synthetic 5W-50. The results were excellent, and showed that its really not necessary, if using a synthetic, to change as often as you do. The analysis is the best way to indicate to you how often to change it.
Re: 850 motronic upgrades[ALL/1988] posted by Mickey on
Friday, 23 January 1998, at 8:56 a.m.
I know this ATF thread has been discussed before, but I just thought I would tell you guys that my dealer here in Toronto includes ATF change as part of the routine maintenance at 96,000 km (60,000 mi) and perhaps at 48,000 km too (not sure about this though since we have only had the car a few months). I was surprised by this when I brought our '95 855T in for its 96,000 km service about a week ago. I knew from this board that changing the ATF was not standard Volvo procedure so I asked the service manager why they did it. Seems they do it for the same reasons you want to do it Paul - i.e. seems to make sense and it is such a cheap bit of insurance. This is a top notch dealership, the oldest and largest in Canada I believe, so it doesn't seem like they are just trying to squeeze a few extra bucks out of their customers. Funny how the dealerships can be so different on something as basic as this. Anyway, we don't have any of the upgrades you guys do (not yet anyway!) but if anything you think that might make a dealer even more inclined to want to change the fluid.
Regards,
Mickey
Re: 850 motronic upgrades[ALL/1988] posted by Bruce McKellar on
Sunday, 25 January 1998, at 3:07 a.m.
At my last major service, just before warranty expired, I asked my service consultant about any upcoming major service items that need to be done and besides mentioning drive belt and timing belt, they mentioned ATF change. Already knowing how many miles were on the car, this was also reccomended by the parts person as well.
After much thought and following threads, I decided to change the fluid myself; now that I am well out of warranty, I perform motor oil changes as well {I use Mobil 1 10w 30 and change every 2.5k miles with Volvo flters which I buy at my dealer for about $5}.
Having the IPD motronic ECU/Exhaust upgrade, I was worried about extra stress put on the transmission. Found the plug (I beleive that it is 24mm) and drained what seemed to be a lot more that 3 quarts out. Following Mark Klien's reccomendation of 3.5 quarts refill, thats how much I put back in, however, I used Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF.
Started it up, drove it around the block and checked the level again and ended up putting .25 qt more in. Drove the car about 300 miles more and drained it again refilled w/3.75 qts of Mobil 1 and now the fluid is red again! Before is was darkish brown, but not as dark as motor oil and did not smell burnt.
Should note that my shifts are almost seemless and under hard acceleration shifts are now one fluid-like feverish rush to 100 mph. Also I now note that under day to day driving I notice that the torque converter locks up quicker (lower RPM) than I remember; even more so when in town I sometimes drive around in 3rd instead of Drive and I notice it will lockup around 40mph dropping the RPMs low, almost like the engine is on the verge of lugging. But that is better for fuel economy, I guess.
Also, someone, whoever designed the IPD skidplate (TME?) felt, like Volvo, that the ATF did not need changing because the skidplate needs to be removed in order for this service to be completed. If/when anyone changes the fluid, the power steering lines were in the way, as all I had was a deep-well 24mm socket and needed a 3" long 1/2 inch drive extension and standard length socket, which would have been easier than pulling on the tubes to get the socket into the space to tighten the plug.
As simple as all of this was, I will certinaly change the fluid every 25k, especially given what I feel to be better shifting and the protection of synthetic.
ps'
has anyone had experience with Mobil 1 15w 50?
it gets mighty hot here in Phoenix in the summer and I have been thinking swithching when summer nears and was wondering if the higher viscosity would be better. I have used 5w 50 Syntec in another car with success but was mostly wondering about what Volvo says about no more than 25 point spread in multiweight oils. Would this apply to synthetics?
Re: 850 motronic upgrades[ALL/1988] posted by Jay Blake on
Sunday, 25 January 1998, at 3:38 p.m.
Bruce, after spending some time discussing lubricants with a Mobil engineer followed by additional research, I've become a whole hearted supporter of synthetic oils. As I understand it ( I'm not an engineer!), straight synthetics are for the most part manufactured as straight weight oils (many of the synthetics available are blends of conventional and synthetics - Mobil 1 is straight synthetic). Viscosity levels are determined by standards hashed out by the ASTM and SAE amongst others and relate in essence to how well the oil will be able to flow at colder temperatures. In general, viscosity is a measure of the internal resistance within a fluid. As temperatures rise, the resistance is reduced and vice versa. The key considerations are how well (quickly) oil can be delivered to bearings under cold conditions and how thick of a film can be provided to seperate moving surfaces when hot. Engine manufacturer's determine - based on internal bearing clearances among other things - what viscosity oil should be used. Mobil 1 10W 30 is a 30 weight oil. Because it flows so well when cold, it - without the aid of polymers added to conventinal multi weight oils - exhibits the same characteristics as a 10 weight oil. Filling this requirement, the established industry specs require them to label it as a multi weight oil. Conventional multi weight lubricants that manitain a wide viscosity spread do so by adding goodies that enhance its behavior. These materials breakdown over time. My industry (air cooled engines) prefers 30 w, will accept 10 W 30 but will not recommend 10W 40 as they won't last under the more extreme temperatures we see as opposed to water cooled. Its interesting to note that oil consumption increases with conventional multi weights. Point spreads in full synthetics should not be an issue. I use Mobil 1 15W 50 in my Chevy 5.7L V-8 because I tow a trailer in the summer and 5W 30 in my 83' 245 DL for good startability in Wisconsin winters. 5W 30 still pours easily at 10 or 20 below zero (f). Last point (honest!)- if you have any oil leaks, you'll probably see an increase if you go to full synthetics based on ease of flow. Sorry for the long post - long winded today!
Jay
88' Chevy pickup - 170 k
83' 245 DL - 160 k
79' IH Scout - 180 k
67' Harley FLH - 20 k
92' Harley Custom - 2 k
Re: Synthetic oil/Oil leak in B5234[ALL/1988] posted by Bruce McKellar on
Monday, 26 January 1998, at 12:37 a.m.
Jay, thanks for your info on synthetics. I am now as much a beleiver in them as it sounds that you are: I even use synthetic grease on my overhead garage door!
Problem:
My '95 854t started dripping oil a couple of months ago. Since that time, it has gone from a little drop about once a week to a larger/more pronounced drop about once every-other day. I first suspected that the plug was not tight enough; as that is where the drop was forming, but upon further inspection, is seems to be orginating further up behind the engine block. As best as I can tell (there is oil all along the side and bottom of the pan and along the gasket - maybe due to oil blowing everywhere when I drive?) the oil seems to be coming from somewhere near the down-pipe/return pipe off the turbo just before it goes down into the oil pan.
My question to the group is:
Is this possible? Could oil leak from this position or should I look elsewhere, if so where?
Is this a semi-common thing?
Is this something that should be fixed right away, or is there any harm (other than a greasy garage floor)in letting it go until I get back to the dealer?
It was my thinking that maybe because of the molecular structure of synthetic oil being more uniform in nature that oil has found its way out where mineral oil previously clogged it? And possiblly the high detergents of sythetic have, in effect, "cleaned" the return pipe of any "cokeing" that was possibly there when I bought the car (used) not knowing if synth. was used or if even the turbo was allowed to wind/cool down before shut-down.
Thanks in advance!
I really enjoy this forum!
Bruce
'95 854t 58k and I love it more and more with each passing mile! (and evertime I press on the gas- pedal)
Re: 850 motronic upgrades[ALL/1988] posted by Paul Elliott on
Tuesday, 27 January 1998, at 7:21 p.m.
Great post about ATF service! We appreciate it. About those pesky power steering lines: When checking for my drain plug location and size, I was able to just bypass them by using a 3 in. extention on my socket. I havent done the service yet as I'm waiting another 5k miles til I hit 25k miles. Re the 25 point viscosity spread: yes, it also applies to synthetic...I had my oil analyzed a while ago after I had been using Quaker State Synquest 5W-50, and while everything was in good shape, it did report that my viscosity had degraded from a 50W at the hi end to 40W. First, you dont need anymore than a 30W hi end if youre using synthetic. Check out the Mobil1 Web site, for more info on this...I've recently changed from Mobil1 5W-30 to 0W-30, for quickest migration of oil during startup. A 50W is simply to thick to be useful, in addition to the hi spread. In europe, the tendency is for much thicker oils thatn are recommend here...I dont know why, other than to think its as much cultural as anything else. For instance, at the TME web site in their Questions section, he flat out recommends at Least a 5W-50 synthetic. Yet experts here flat out condemn this. Another example: Nissan recommends a much thicker oil for their 300ZX's which were sold in Europe than those sold here! Lastly, Mobil markets a 5W-50 for Europe, but not here, which they state, is for marketing reasons as much as anything else... iOW, the thick stuff just wont sell here!
BTW, what color was your aTF after your first drain, before your 300 mile trip and refil? My (still) stock fill is a clear ish, pinkish brown...Its not dark at all, but on white paper towel, you can see a combination of pink and light brown. I'm sure this is ok, as I understand it must really turn quite dark, ie, almost black, before any question of burning applies. And still Volvo says; Dont change the stuff! My dealer who refuses to do the service, per Volvo, says they dont even change it if it is black and has > 100,000 mi! Yet, they say they've never had to replace an 850 transmission. Go Figure..
Re: 850 motronic upgrades[ALL/1988] posted by Bruce McKellar on
Wednesday, 28 January 1998, at 1:50 a.m.
Paul,
Before changing my ATF its color was about what you describe yours to be: brownish, slightly pinkish/orange, clear around the edges when put on white paper. After the first drain/refill/drving 300 miles, it was simlar to above only lighter (redder) in color. Now after second drain/refll it is mostly pink/red like new fluid with a barely noticable brownish tint to it (when placed on same piece of paper next to before, first and second change).
Also interested in hearing where, what's involved, what info they provide and how much $ your oil analization was.
:} Bruce
Re: 850 motronic upgrades[ALL/1988] posted by Erick Kobres on
Tuesday, 27 January 1998, at 6:27 a.m.
Is 5W-50 really a good idea?
My Volvo owner's manual says not to use oil with a greater than 30W (I think) viscosity split.
Also, where did you get the analysis done?
-Erick
Re: 850 motronic upgrades[ALL/1988] posted by Paul Elliott on
Thursday, 22 January 1998, at 8:54 a.m.
I agree with Terence...other than the significant increase in power, which is easily felt, not just measured, you will be unable to tell you have done anything to the car, in terms of upkeep and maintanance...just be very careful to perform all fluid changes on time, and wait for your temp guage to move before pushing the boost. I change my oil and filter with Mobil1 0w-30 every 5000 miles religiously. I've had my oil analyed, and find this is at least frequently enough. TME in Sweden, who developed the eCu, recommends changing your ATF every 25,000 miles, even though Volvo does NOT recommend this service. But, they also recommend using at least a 5W-50 synthetic engine oil. I find that European care is quite a bit different than American style..for instance, they are notorious for using a heavier viscosity oil than we do... Which is one of the reasons Mobil1 is available in 5W-50 there, but not at all here! I'll probably drain and refill my ATF at 25K miles, but I dont think its a crucial service for this model, ECU or no. At any rate, this is a first class upgrade, which should provide you performance similar to an Automatic M3, or even 540I, at much lower costs....enjoy it, you made a good choice!
Re: 850 motronic upgrades[ALL/1988] posted by JS on
Friday, 23 January 1998, at 9:37 p.m.
I have had a Motronic 4.3 upgrade in my 1995 850 Turbo for about 20,000 miles. Lately I have noticed somewhat abrupt upshifts of the automatic transmission. I have not yet asked my mechanic (due next week) to check on that. I wonder if this is unique or if it has happened to others...
Also, be careful with wheelspin in slippery roads! The amount of power that your front wheels get now is definitely different from before your upgrade.
Enjoy it!