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CD Player woes[ALL/1988] posted by Erick Kobres on
Saturday, 3 January 1998, at 7:46 p.m.
I have a 98 S70 T5 with the premium sound system.
Some of the newer CDs will not play reliably in this unit. Specifically, CD's which also contain data files. (CD EXTRA format) Two of my recent CD acquisitions have this problem:
Batman Forever Soundtrack - (Has free software to access the internet)
Toad the Wet Sprocket - COIL - (
Usually you will put the CD in and it will spin up, think about it, then spit it out. If you try it enough times, it eventually works! Then, as long as you leave it in the player it works, even after you turn the CD player (or the car) off and on again.
Any ideas or suggestions?
My dealer said "I dunno. Call the 800 Volvo number." They take to long to alswer the phone...
-Erick
Re: CD Player woes[ALL/1988] posted by pat on
Sunday, 4 January 1998, at 2:39 p.m.
I'm also experiencing problems with my player. Many of my CD's (especially the ones I have recorded myself) seem to mistrack alot. I have not yet had it reject a cd but the mistracking is annoying. Seems the player is extra picky about what cd's you give it. Some times, just taking the cd out, blowing it off, and then reinserting it fixes the problem. I have a sony cd changer in my other car which plays all the cd's fine.
Re: CD Player woes[ALL/1988] posted by Erick Kobres on
Monday, 5 January 1998, at 5:51 a.m.
Pat,
I have seen the problem you are talking about as well. This is a different one. The CD will play flawlessly once you convince it to take it. (No mis-tracking.) I think this is a firmware problem with the CD player. I say this because the loaner cars I have gotten from the dealer in the past all have the same problem, and the replacement unit they put in my car to fix this also had the problem.
Does anybody know who OEMs this particular unit? I suspect it is Alpine, because you can install an Alpine CHM-S600 CD changer which will plug right into the dash unit and enable the "CHGR" controls.
Re: CD Player woes[ALL/1988] posted by abe crombie on
Monday, 5 January 1998, at 8:18 a.m.
The manufacturer of the single disc in-dash player/tape/radio is Mitsubishi.
Re: CD Player woes[ALL/1988] posted by pat on
Monday, 5 January 1998, at 8:46 a.m.
I have from the beginning been planning to install the alpine changer in the glovebox but I was under the impression that I would need a PIE adapter for the din cable. I'm told if I were to mount it in the truck, the cable is already there, but I need the adapter. Are you saying that the din plug on the head unit itself is already alpine ready?
Re: CD Player woes[ALL/1988] posted by Erick Kobres on
Monday, 5 January 1998, at 9:03 a.m.
I do not know what happens between the head unit and the cable in the trunk. I cannot say if the head unit DIN connector will work with the Alpine or not.
Let me know how your CD project goes! I'm interested in doing the same thing.
BTW, do you know if there is a kit or part available to boost the wattage from the factory premium system? There is a suspicious "AMP" DIN connector on the head unit next to the "CHGR" connector. I found a part on the Swedish Volvo site. (Part number HA-4250) which is an external 4X40 amplifier. S'pose it's plug and play? The built-in amp does okay unless you have the sunroof open. Sure would be nice to have an extra 160 watts! (or even an extra 60.)
-Erick
V70/S70 - Optional Amp[ALL/1988] posted by pat on
Monday, 5 January 1998, at 9:33 a.m.
I have not yet removed my radio but I was hoping it would have that DIN connector for the optional amp. I just now need to confirm that those are line-level voltages. The stereo wiring diagram for the V70 doesn't show the din connector but the wiring diagram for the optional amp does. I was worried that it would have required a new head unit. Do you have the SC816?
About the optional amp:
From what I can remember from the wiring diagram, the optional amp is installed under the passenger seat. There's a picture of it in the Volvo NA accessories catalog. There's even an optional remote control. The amp does not appear to be a simple plug-play thing. Unless all the cables have been prerun (which I'm assuming they're not, since nothing was plugged into those din connectors), you'll probably need to run the din, a speaker extension, and power to the passenger seat. Do you have a cost for the amp?
Re: V70/S70 - Optional Amp[ALL/1988] posted by Erick Kobres on
Monday, 5 January 1998, at 11:56 a.m.
Yes, I'm pretty sure I have the SC-816. (Whatever's standard in the S70 T5)
As for prices. you're not going to believe this: (Actually, since you have a Volvo you probably will.)
The Booster (as they call it): $494.23 Volvo p/n: 6816302
Wiring Harness: $54.86 (too shocked from above to ask for p/n)
Mounting Bracket: $16.41 (too shocked from above to ask for p/n)
It's Apparently just a 4x50 amp.
Under the seat is usually not a good place for an amp. They must have at least 1" clearance on all sides. Also, I think under the seat they may get in the way of the rear floor heating ducts. The parts guy I talked to said he thinks it mounts under the center console. Also, he believes it is made by Alpine.
I can get a lot more than 200 watts for $565.50! Any idea how to find out who makes that amp and if the wiring is standard stuff? I was thinking of going by a local Car Audio place and see if they have the wiring harness and connectors. The mounting bracket may *have* to come from Volvo.
Keep in mind: Alpine's top-of-the-line in-dash double-DIN 3-Disk CD Changer/Casette unit with 10 band EQ and everything under the sun goes for only $600 on the street ($999 list). And I believe it comes with 25x4, just like the Volvo unit.
The radio pops right out with no tools. You just use your key to push the little vertical depressions on either side of the case and once they are popped out, you pull the whole unit out. (Make sure not to unplug any of the cables unless you have your code-card handy!)
Where did you get the wiring diagrams?!?
-Erick
Re: V70/S70 - Optional Amp[ALL/1988] posted by pat on
Monday, 5 January 1998, at 2:17 p.m.
Ouch! Once again, expensive! I've checked and have not found an aftermarket wiring harness for the amp output yet but have found the convertors for the CD changer. I removed my radio and the amp DIN looks like a standard plug. I'm going to check electronic stores later this week. Then it's just a matter of figuriing out what does what with a multimeter and some headphones. The changer should fit in the glovebox with a little room to spare.
$600 is alot for 200 watts, especially if that's max power. I wonder what the specs are on the amp and what's it's fuse rating?
I went to the dealer for the wiring diagrams. I just asked them if I could take a look at the electrical manual for my model. The optional amp may mount under the center console. The center console,passenger seat was the general area where the arrow was pointing for that number. I'm just remembering what I saw.
Re: V70/S70 - Optional Amp[ALL/1988] posted by Erick Kobres on
Monday, 5 January 1998, at 7:45 p.m.
I think you can probably get that DIN connector just about anywhere. (You may be better off making your own DIN-RCA cables.) It's possible you can find an amp with the same DIN inputs as the head unit, though.
I'm going to try to stick with the factory speakers at first. The specs are not bad. (I may try and find some bigger 8" woofers.) I suspect the rest are pretty good after removing one to fix a loose wire on my right-front tweeter. They seem to have well-matched active crossovers. How are they wired? Are all 8 channels separate or do they wire them in series into 4 channels?
(I included a link to the Volvo Sweden page with the speaker specs.)
Do you have instuctions for getting the rear door panels off? It wants to come of after you remove the single torx screw from the arm rest, but I can't seem to get the door-latch part undone all the way. How about getting the rear speakers out?
Maybe we should set up a web page that chronicles this adventure! (I have a digital camera...)
Let me know if you want to collaborate in more detail. Surely other audio enthusiasts would benefit from this.
-Erick
Click here for Speaker Specs!
Re: V70/S70 - Optional Amp[ALL/1988] posted by pat on
Monday, 5 January 1998, at 9:57 p.m.
Well, the cd thing you mentioned just happened to me tonight with some of my friends CDRs. Had to reinsert the disc about 15 times before it finally worked. Also happened with 3 other of his CDs. Extremely annoying. Need to get that changer done.
As for the number of channels, I'm assuming it's only 4 channels since the specs mention a 4x25 watt amp in the head unit.
Seems like you are further into your project than me (I don't even have 1000 miles yet). The wiring diagram shows that the head unit has 3 pairs of speaker outs: 2 front,2 rear,2 dash. The diagram also shows the rear outputs being split by a passive crossover into two more speakers (lows,highs). Interestingly, if you do get the volvo amp, the diagram makes it seem like the 2 front,2 rear then get powered by the amp, but the 2 dash still get powered by the head unit. The crossover slope of 6db is not good in my opinion.(any may lead to blown speakers). I prefer 12db for mid,highs and 18db for subs. To me the stereo just sounds flat and dull which is probably volvo intended since thats what appeals to most people. As soon as I started playing some of my favorite cd's however, I was missing my maxima back at home, but then the turbo kicked in and I was back to reality. Anyways, my first goal is to get the CD changer installed in the glovebox before the end of the month. Then I'll make the amp cable, and run whatever other wiring is necessary to the back. Then I'm temporarily borrowing a 4x60 from the maxima to see how it sounds. I may also temporarily use my own crossover with the factory speakers to listen for any improvements. My final plans are maybe new front speakers, a 4x50 for the four corners down to 100-80hz, and a 1X100 for a sub in the back somewhere. Don't know where yet but I really want to put that huge space under the right-rear of the car to good use.
There is an exterior/interior body manual that would hopefully show how to get the rear door panel off. I was planning on looking at that one on my next visit since I'll need to remove the doors for my install (and to fix that air leak). Have you removed the panel for your front doors or dash speakers yet? If so, how was it?
I have no problems working together (I'm in boston,ma) and setting up a site as I was planning to do so anyways.
What digital camera do you have and do you like it? I'm thinking of getting one also.
Re: V70/S70 - Optional Amp[ALL/1988] posted by Erick Kobres on
Tuesday, 6 January 1998, at 7:09 a.m.
I removed the dash panels a while back, and it was a breeze. I have not removed the front door panels yet. Hopefully the grill pops off. I know the grills in the back doors do *NOT* pop off.
When the head unit powers just the dash speakers, do they bridge the front and rear channels together to get more power? 'Cause all that's in the dash is a pair of 1.1" tweeters. You don't s'pose the "dash" includes the front door speakers do you?
Where are the rear crossovers located? Would you be inclined to keep using active crossovers or to switch to a passive arrangement? It seems odd that the crossovers in the back would include the back doors, because the both the back doors and the hat shelf speakers have tweeters. (Unless I was hallucinating while looking through the hat shelf grill.) Does your wiring diagram show how this is done?
I don't know too much about active crossovers. What does the dB slope represent? Is it the volume difference between the blocked and passed frequencies? With passive crossovers it's always just been a matter of picking good cut-off frequencies.
Is the DIN connector 4 channels or two? Also, I wonder how the fader treats the DIN connector?
One of my priorities it to keep the whole project reversible and as invisible as possible. I don't like the idea of giving away my audio gear when (if) I get rid of the car. It would be nice to be able to use the factory wiring, possibly excepting the subs.
Also, if I add a sub, I would like to find a way to keep it in the passanger compartment (or at least port it in there) and keep as much bass as possible from escaping the car. (I don't want to sound like a teenager driving through my neighborhood.) Do you think it's possible to get adequate bass from a good pair of free-air 8" pro subs? If so, no enclosures or modifications would be necessary. Another possibility would be to convert the rear shelf into a sealed box from inside the trunk.
You've really got me thinking about putting a changer into my glovebox now. What model(s) are you looking at?
I have an older Kodak DC40 camera. It's incredibly slow downloading pictures. (up to a minute per picture.). But the images are excellent quality for what I paid for it. You get 640x480x24bit color. The images are internally compressed no doubt using some JPEG variant. The resulting pictures are quite adequate for Web/Personal use. (Certainly not publication quality!) The camera holds 48 pictures and chews batteries like a bandit.
-Erick
Re: V70/S70 - Optional Amp[ALL/1988] posted by pat on
Tuesday, 6 January 1998, at 9:29 a.m.
Do the dash panels just get pryed off carefullly?
>> When the head unit powers just the dash speakers,do they bridge the front and rear channels together to get more power << If you are refering to the setup after the optional amp is installed, I can not tell from the wiring diagram and I doubt it. As for that rear crossover, I have to apologize. My V70 has highs from the rear doors and supports optional rear tweeters in the pillars. In rethinking the diagram, it's probably just some splitter plug than splits the single amp output to the two speakers and the speakers themselves have the crossovers on them. Which speaker did you have to fix and did you notice any crossover attached to it?
In my opinion active crossovers (and thus biamplification) make a big improvement in many aspects. I'm hoping I'll have the same success as my maxima. In the maxima, I kept the radio and all the speakers (just rewired them to bypass their own bose amps and crossover), and added front door 'real' tweeters' near the mirrors. Ran a 4x60 to the four corners cutoff actively at 80/12db. Then 150 to a 15" sub in a sealed enclosure. Lost 1/3 of the trunk. When compared to another maxima, there was no comparison. I can be going 70 with all the windows open and still hear the music clearly. I haven't blown a single speaker whereas my friend has gone through 2 factory ones. The first big step is to separate the subs from everything else. That gives the biggest improvement. Slope refers to how quickly those frequencies above/below the cutoff frequency diminish. The higher the number the quicker and further the frequencies drop off. Higher slopes protect speakers, improve imaging, and prevent other speakers from influencing the sound but they have drawbacks as well.The higher the slope, the more components in the crossover, the more power gets soaked up, etc. That's why for passive, I stick to 12db, but with active 18db is common since power loss isn't an issue. And remember, power doesn't blow speakers, distortion and clipping do. You'll blow a speaker quicker with a 25w amp than a 100w amp.
The din can only be 4 channels. There are 6 pins, so I'm assuming 4 channels, a common audio ground, and a turn on lead for the amp.
My current plan shows me not having to cut a single volvo wire. Crutchfield has a wiring harness for using the factory speakers.
>> Do you think it's possible to get adequate bass from a good pair of free-air 8" pro subs? << That's hard to tell. Good bass driving normally (easily yes), or doing 70mph with the windows and sunroof open (maybe not)? Everyone has a different opinion about what good bass is. I hate boomers also (probably 90% of the cars out there) and don't want to sound like a teenager either. Unfortunately, for some people, it is more important to them that everyone else hears it than themselves. Usually happens from putting to big a speaker in to small a box or having the wrong port frequency. Basically, the subs curve peaks so much at one freq that it 'booms'. I went through three box designs for the maxima. At least wood is cheap.
I'll let you know how the changer goes. I'm looking at the alpine 6 (that's the only one that will work with the factory radio anyways, right?) and based on the dimensions it should fit easily with no modifications in the glovebox, except for some hole I'll need to pass the wires through.
I had the same camera at my previous job and felt the same way about it. However, the pictures were excellent.
Re: V70/S70 - Optional Amp[ALL/1988] posted by Erick Kobres on
Tuesday, 6 January 1998, at 2:02 p.m.
>>Do the dash panels just get pryed off carefullly? <<
Yes, gently. If I remember correctly they "hinge" along the window edge. (Of course.) So just use something thin to pop them up from the edge closest to you.
>>Which speaker did you have to fix and did you notice any crossover attached to it? <<
Yes. It was the right, front tweet and it had a cap attached to it. (It was a pretty heavy duty tweeter, too as I recall.)
I have an S-70, so I luckily have a pair of 8" subs in the rear deck. I just need to figure out how they are wired and what the total ohm load for each channel is.
I totally agree with you on the power issue. When an amp is overdriven and clips, it just dumps raw DC into the voice coil and KZZZZTHZCH!
And from my understanding, preamp-type crossovers (active?) conserve a whole lot of pos-amp power since you are chopping unamplified signals. Meaning the amp does not have to generate extra power to overcome the inefficiency of blocking the unwanted frequencies. Also, your speakers don't have to work as hard since they are moving only at the intended frequencies.
According to Volvo, the factory speakers are rated 100 watts RMS, 300 peak.
I really need to find out if there are tweeters in the shelf speakers and how they are wired.
How many amps do you think you can safely switch with the amp turn-on lead from the head unit?
I'm thinking about 2 or 3 amps at the moment. 2x40 @ 4 ohms for the tweets, 4x50 @ 4 ohms or 2x100 @ 2 ohms for the four doors and 1X150 @ 4 ohms for the 8" subs (they are each 8 ohms) . I may be able to combine the four doors and the two subs into a single 4X100 amp. It sort of depends on wiring. I would rather have the sub amp in the back if the shelf speakers are wired into the same circuit as the rear doors. I could then power them directly.
I think I'll drop by that audio shop now... I'll let you know what I learn.
-Erick
Re: V70/S70 - Optional Amp[ALL/1988] posted by pat on
Tuesday, 6 January 1998, at 2:43 p.m.
Active crossovers work at the preamp level and yes their greatest benefit is allowing the amp to devot itself to the proper frequencies without having to waste power amplifing unwanted frequencies. Most common problem is a fullrange amp clipping it's bass signal and that clip making it's way into a tweete due to a 6db slope, thus frying the tweeter. With active crossovers, the tweeter amp doesn't get any bass so it never clips.
You're describing a triamplified system which will require a separate crossover between the front mids and highs. I have yet to hear a tri-amped system that justified the extra expense and wiring. Separating the subs from everything else is the biggest improvement since they can use 70-80% of your power. I would much sooner drop the 2X40, that the 1x150 for the dedicated subs.
I can't help with the rear subs since my wiring diagram is for the V70 only. The turn on lead is not high amperage (doesn't need to be) but if for some reason it doesn't put out enough, a $5 relay can fix that. I'm more worried about turn-on thump, but most good amps have a built in delay now anyways.
Re: V70/S70 - Optional Amp[ALL/1988] posted by Erick Kobres on
Wednesday, 7 January 1998, at 2:11 p.m.
You're probably right about the triamplified system.
Okay, so here is what I learned:
If you go into any of the more expensive Audio stores they will tell you that every amp is a piece of junk except for their two most expensive models. ($1000+). If you go into the less expensive audio store they know less than I do. So I had to resort to surfing. (As usual.)
Three lines have my attention right now:
Alpine V12 pro series: (~$560 for the 4-channel.)
MRV-F505 4/3/2 channel - Senses voltage (12 on battery, 14.4 running) and adjusts output. It supplies either 50 or 75 watts RMS into 4 omhs (65/100 into 2 ohms) depending on the voltage. It puts out either 130 or 200 RMS mono (4 ohms) into a bridged channel. It has built-in preamp x-overs, gain and a small parametric equalizer on the front. SN is 105dB and THD is 0.08 into 4 ohms and 0.3 into bridged channels or 2 ohm channels. (No info on x-over dB slope or EQ.)
MRV-T505 is the same amp but only 2 channels.
http://www.alpine1.com/plocator/amps3.html
Sony X series: (~$350 for the 4-channel)
XM-504X 4/3/2 channel - 50Wx4 into 4 ohms, 20-20kHz, at 0.04% THD 50Wx2 + 130Wx1 into 4 ohms, 20-20kHz, at 0.1% THD 130Wx2 into 2 ohms, 20-20kHz, at 0.1% THD 70Wx4 into 2 ohms, 20-20kHz, at 0.1% THD Adjustable 50 - 200Hz 12dB/Oct HPF/LPF w/defeat 40Hz Lo frequency EQ adjustable 0 to +12dB Individually adjustable input gain controls Independent Left + Right LED level indicators High level inputs Discrete FET predrivers, Bi-Polar final stage Regulated MOSFET power supply Dual mode operation allows stereo & mono drive Protection for temp, voltage & current faults Balanced input circuit for noise isolation Chassis mounted gold plated RCA/screw terminals dim:13 1/8 x 2 1/8 x 11
http://www.sel.sony.com/SEL/consumer/ss5/autosound/amplifiers/xm-504x.html
Rockford Fosgate : (~$529 for the 4 channel)
360.6 6/5/4/3/2/1 channel - 60Wx4 into 4 ohms. Much more into 2 ohms. Adjustable 12dB slope XCard Crossovers. Differential input cancellation. S/N > 100dB, THD < 0.05 at rated output.
http://www.rockfordcorp.com/fosgate/
I'm leaning toward the Rockford Fosgate due to nostalgia. ;^)
-Erick
Re: V70/S70 - Optional Amp[ALL/1988] posted by pat on
Wednesday, 7 January 1998, at 5:48 p.m.
I'm hoping to do the changer this weekend if the local car audio shop gets the adapter in. Alpine 601 = $329. They are suppose to be getting in some Peripheral VOL815 cd changer interfaces, price unknown. Assuming $80 since I can order a PIE adapter through circuit city for that amount, but would then have to wait 2-3wks.
As for amps, I was looking originally at the sonys; 504X at $349 and the 502X at $199 for the subs. I'm also considering some kenwoods now since they include a subsonic filter (very good to have on a sub amp) and you can adjust the high and low pass crossover points individually. Don't know if you can do that on the sonys. As for the subsonic, another option I'm considering is a phoenix gold bass module that has a very good high pass subsonic and a remote sub volume that would allow me to adjust the subvolume from the front. There have been numerous time when I would have liked in lower, and others where I wanted more.
Alpine I consider to be over priced and not worth it. I've never dealt/used Rockford Fosgate. The other option I may pursue is to restore the maxima's original stereo since it's getting used much less now, and use those amps.
Go to crutchfield and order their catalog. They have good stuff at good prices.
I'll let you know how the changer goes
Re: V70/S70 - Optional Amp[ALL/1988] posted by Erick Kobres on
Thursday, 8 January 1998, at 6:05 a.m.
A store here has the Volvo->Alpine adapter for $49.95. It's an 8 inch cable and has the Volvo male mini-DIN on one side and the Alpine Female DIN on the other, as well as two wires. (Red and Yellow) I don't know what they are for. Remote turn-on and something else? Is the head unit supposed to power the changer? Does the changer you are looking at support CD naming and all that kind of neat stuff if you upgrade the head unit later?
I agree about the subsonic filter. Those bottom couple dozen hz suck a lot of juice for exactly nothing. I need to see if the Fosgate amps have a sub filter available. You can always get a 6 way crossover for <$200 which does all of that stuff and cleans up the preamp voltage, etc. I found out that Fosgate has a 6x60 amp (!) which may be just the thing.
BTW, if you like to "feel" your bass, but don't want to be a boomer, have you looked at the Alpine Bass Engines? They are 25-50 watt transducers which attach to the underneath part of your seat. They literally shake the seat a-la Nissan 300-ZX, and each comes with a remote gain knob. I think they are rated from 25 to 80hz. You could run them from an el-cheapo amp or maybe even the head unit.
Have you heard good things about the Sony amps? I have never heard one in person. Their prices seem too good to be true for the features you get. I have always been very happy with my Sony home Audio/TV stuff and I like their head units. I'm underwhelmed by their auto speakers, however.
-Erick
Re: V70/S70 - Optional Amp[ALL/1988] posted by pat on
Thursday, 8 January 1998, at 7:49 a.m.
Do you know who the manufacturer of that adapter is? The red and yellow wires are probably constant 12+ and switched 12+ from the head unit.
The Alpine S601 does not support naming and looks to be a basic 'no-frills' changer. According to the peripheral cd changer interface documentation, the only changers supported are the 601 and the 604, but the 604 has some side notes I could not find, probably that you can't use the extra features. The 604 is a better model with naming,AI-Net,see-through door,illuminated eject button,and some other things. I'm going with the 601since none of those features justify the extra cost, and I've never liked alpine head units. The maxima is all sony except for one of the amps and an audiocontrol eq. The sony in the maxima also has naming, and after all the trouble I went through to name one cd, I haven't used the feature since. I have no problem with sony amps, or almost any other amp given that the specs are good since you usually need an oscilloscope to tell the difference between them. If it was a blind test case, do you think you'd be able to name the brand of amp you're listening to? Basically, most bang for the buck is what I'm after and sony,kenwood always deliver. My previous car was all kenwood.
Before getting a 6-way crossover for <$200 and duplicating functionality that already exists in the amps, look at the phoenix gold and audiocontrol bass enhancers.
6x60 is pretty good, asumming you'll bridge and go 4x60,1x120. However, keep in mind that the bridged channel may rob power.affect the other channels, since everything is now on one circuit board. That's why I always recommend a separate 4x40-60 and a 1x150 with a capacitor on the sub amp only. That way the 4x amp stays cools and has sufficient power at all times. Also gives you greater flexibilty with more built-in crossovers due to the extra amp and maybe later on if you remove the stereo.
I saw the bass-engines advertised but have yet to hear, oops 'feel', them. Have you tried them out yet. I'm a little skepitical.
Re: V70/S70 - Optional Amp[ALL/1988] posted by Erick Kobres on
Thursday, 8 January 1998, at 8:51 a.m.
I don't know the maker of the adapter. I'll find out this evening.
Yes, I'll bridge 5+6. Actually that should give me more like 240 into a true 4 ohm load (my subs wired in parallel) since the amp will see a 2 ohm load due to the bridge. I can easily tell the difference between the Fosgate and the Alpine amps. (Some of it has to do with how they are crossed over, but the Fosgates seem to have a warmer, punchier sound with much tighter bass. They sound less bright, but not muddy.) Rockford Fosgate amps are notoriously underrated (for competition) so I'm not worried about my two piddly little 100 watt 8" subs stealing any of the power from my mid-highs. I'm pretty sure they take that into account. 2 of the channels may even be isolated. (8 leads are on one side of the amp and the other 4 are on the opposite side.) Smells like a 240.4 + 120.2 put into a single case.
I've started boning up on x-over technology and am now trying to pay attention to phase shift and rolloff. From what I have been reading I would caution you about 18dB/octive crossovers. (These are 3rd order crossovers, so it's impossible to achieve correct "electrical phase" since they knock the high and low out of phase by 270 degrees. Only 180 degree phase shifts can be easily corrected.) 12dB and 24dB (2nd and 4th order) crossovers shift by 180 and 360 degrees, so for 12dB you can reverse the leads of either the high or the low, and for 24dB you don't have to do anything.
As for the x-overs in the amp, they may have already taken all of this stuff into account.
What exactly are these bass enhancers? Are they active or passive? I really want to make sure I get good sub filtering, because with 8" subs, I need all of the +30hz audible-range accuracy I can get.
Do you know where I can find out the slope and cutoff data on the factory speakers? I'm guessing that all of the factory crossovers are passive. I just hope the subs are not wired into the same circuit with the rear doors.
Maybe I'll swing by the dealer today and see if I can talk him out of a bona-fide diagram.
-Erick
Re: V70/S70 - Optional Amp[ALL/1988] posted by Erick Kobres on
Thursday, 8 January 1998, at 12:33 p.m.
I got the wiring diagrams from the dealer.
There are 6 channels coming out of the head unit. 2 for the dash, 2 for the front doors, and 2 split between the rear doors and subs. (or whatever yours are in the V70.) Since the subs run at 8 ohms, I guess this gives you a 3 ohm load and more power to the doors speakers than the subs. The dash speakers are on a different connector than the rest. I bet they get less power.
Anyway, The S70 and V70 are wired the same way, except you have column tweeters (right?) where I have subwoofers. No wonder the V70 stero sounds flat!
Here are the wiring diagram numbers and colors:
A1 - R-W - Left Dash (+)
A2 - Y-W - Left Dash (-)
A3 - BL-W - Ant (+)
A4 - R-SB - BATT (+)
A5 - ??
A6 - SB - Ground
A7 - Y-GR - Right Dash (+)
A8 - GR - Right Dash (-)
A9 - ??
A10 - P - RHEO (+) (Dimmer?)
A11 - ??
A12 - R-SB - BATT (+)
A13 - Y-VO - ACC (Accessory Power)
A14 - SB - Ground
B1- BN-SB - Left Rear (-) (Parallel 2 speakers)
B2 - BN-W - Left Rear (+) (Parallel 2 speakers)
B3 - GN-BN - Left Front (-)
B4 - GN-W - Left Front (+)
B5 - P-W - Right Rear (-) (Parallel 2 speakers)
B6 - P-SB - Right Rear (+) (Parallel 2 speakers)
B7 - Y-SB - Speed Sensor
B8 - ??
B9 - R-W - Right Front (-)
Unfortunately this diagram does not show the pinouts for the AMP DIN connector. Interestingly they say they use a 4x50 amp for the upgrade, but it has (+) outs for 6 channels, but a common ground for the front doors and dash. (?)
Also, they show the CD changer as sharing power with the antenna circuit, so I believe it's not powered off the CD DIN.
They show all sorts of "boxes" in the wiring diagram. They just have numbers on them, so I'm going to ask them to fax me the key.
Until next time.
-Erick
Re: V70/S70 - Optional Amp[ALL/1988] posted by pat on
Thursday, 8 January 1998, at 12:52 p.m.
The headunit specs states its a 4x25 amp. I think the head unit just Ys the front channel to the two connectors so that if an optional amp is installed, the head unit amp is still put to use powering the front tweeters after disconnecting the B connector (which probably is rerouted to the amp). In looking at the B connector wiring, you'll see references to mod1,mod2,etc which are the optional amps. Also, since you said the front tweeters have a cap on them, I really doubt the head unit is a 6 channel amp with a built in active crossover, especially since it's documented that it's a 4x25.
We have to supply the power to the changer with the red and yellow wires.
The numbers on the wiring diagram are either plugs or components which another page then tells you where they're at.
Re: V70/S70 - Optional Amp[ALL/1988] posted by Erick Kobres on
Thursday, 8 January 1998, at 2:20 p.m.
I got the key wiring diagram key.
The head unit amp is not used at all when the optional amp is installed. I have all four diagrams (S70 and V70 with and w/o the Optional Amp) The only "B" connector pin still used after the upgrade is the B7 (SPEED) connector. The only "A" connector pins still used after the upgrade are:
A3, A4, A6, A10, A12, A13 and A14
That's Power, Antenna Power, Accessory Power and the Dimmer.
Everything else is re-routed to the 4X50 amp.
On taking another look at the diagram, I think the strange wiring of the dash and front door speakers when the amp is installed is due to the fact they are on different connectors.
The good thing is that there are no crossover components hidden in the middle of the wiring harness. Another good thing is the way the subs are wired. I can just unplug the factory connectors from the subs and wire the new amp right into them! The wiring harness will give me direct access to all six of the remeaining speakers. And since I'm planning to bolt the amp right under the subs, it should work like a dream! (There are 3 empty VERY HEAVY DUTY machined screw-holes on the underside of the rear shelf. I'll just cut and carpet a piece of plywood and mount it all right there.)
Shoot, I should just wire it so I can hook up a connector to put the factory system back on line. I'll just have to figure out the best way to get all of the the wires from the center console to the back. Maybe I can go underneath outside with inner-duct.
Oh boy, I think it's starting to come together. :^)
-Erick
Re: V70/S70 - Optional Amp[ALL/1988] posted by pat on
Thursday, 8 January 1998, at 2:33 p.m.
No wonder the wiring costs so much from volvo, you're basically extending all the radio's wires to underneath the seat! I didn't copy the optional amp pages since I knew I wouldn't be going with it, so I've been working off memory. Crutchfield has an adapter that plugs into the a and b connectors of the car (but not the radio) for people adding their own head-units. I'm trying to find a junkyard that has a trashed s70/v70 so that I can get the actual a.b connectors, that will then allow me to extend all wiring to the back without having to disable the factory stereo in any way or cut any wiring. Then all I need is the amp din (maybe make it this weekend) and I can then temporarily plug in my own amp. Current goal is to get the changer and all wiring in this weekend.
Re: V70/S70 - Optional Amp[ALL/1988] posted by Erick Kobres on
Thursday, 8 January 1998, at 2:50 p.m.
Good luck at the junk yard.
I am scouting electronics stores in the area for the right connectors. I would think it has to be close enough to some "standard" part. I'm going to hit up one of our hardware engineers here at work to see where to get stuff like that.
Keep me posted on your progress.
-Erick
Re: V70/S70 - Optional Amp[ALL/1988] posted by Erick Kobres on
Friday, 9 January 1998, at 6:38 a.m.
The name of the company that makes that adapter is OEM Inc. I couln't find the phone number. If you want, later today I can give you the number to the audio store where I saw it. (I'll have to look it up.)
Okay, so I have all of the dope on all of the factory stuff now.
Apparently the US market Premium System is not as nice as the European model. The Swedish Volvo site claims that all of the speakers are 4ohm and rated for 100 watts RMS. The fact is that all of the speakers in my US market S70-T5 are 8ohm and they look like they would be doing well to handle more than 30 watts RMS, with the possible exception of the rear shelf speakers. Maybe they could handle 50 or more. This fits, considering that the factory upgrade amp is a 4X50 watt model. This would drive them at 25 watts per channel RMS at 4 ohms.
The in-dash tweeter layout is an installer's dream.
The dash tweeters can be taken out with nothing more than your thumbnail and a ball point pen(!) The grills pop off very easily. If you have to force it at all you are not prying the right part. There are two nylon fasteners holding the bracket down. Use a thin round object (pen) to push the "button" in the middle of the head of the fastener. Then the fasteners will come right out. To reset the fastener, you push the middle part from the bottom so that the button sticks up from the head of the fastener. Then to reattach the bracket you just push the button flush with the fastener head. I'll have to see if I can find an aftermarket tweeter size that will fit the factory brackets. They look like 1.1" voice-coil paper tweeters. They are quite heavy and actually pretty decent for voice-coil paper tweeters.
The door speakers are not hard to remove either, but you need Torx drivers, a door panel remover and a soldering iron.
All 4 door speakers are 2-way 6.5 inch paper woofers with a tiny paper tweeter. The grill on the door does not come off, so you have to take the door panel off to get to them. To take the door panel off you have to remove the little trap door inside the arm-rest well and remove the single Torx screw.
Next you should VERY CAREFULLY pry the plastic trim from around the inside door handle. The tiny snap-in brackets that hold it are at 1 o'clock, 5 o'clock, 7 o'clock and 11 o'clock. These are probably the best pry points. You do not have to force this much, and if you feel the plactic bending more than the tiniest amount you are prying from the wrong spot. Now just go along the bottom edge of the door and carefully pop all of the nylon brackets. You will be able to tell the door is hanging only by the sill. Put the door lock in the locked position and carefully lift up on the door panel, gently shimmying it to get it loose from the window sill. There are two wires holding the panel to the door: The courtesy light and the power window switch. Both of these connectors come off easily, completely freeing the door panel from the door. Getting the speaker enclosures out is obvious. It's not hard to get the speakers out of the factory enclosures, but you will need a soldering iron. (!) The screw configuration is a 4-screw square pattern. You will probably have to remove the foam tape from the outer edge of the speaker enclosure. (If you peel it very carefully from the back it will come off in one piece.) With the screws and tape off you can now pry the speaker out of the enclosure. It's held in with a tiny bead of silicone sealant. I was able to pry mine out quite easily. (Pry from the non-wire side.) At this point, its a matter of desoldering. and you are home free.
I got the rear shelf out too, but I will will save the instructions for another day, since you don't have them in your V70. I will say that they are 2-way speakers with an 8" paper subwoofer and a hefty 1" soft dome tweeter. I was under the false impression that the shelf speakers were sub-only. Now I'm looking for a good place to surface mount tweeters in the back. I'm thinking about the little fasteners that are designed to hold a sunshade. There is one on each side in the back.
I located my rear CD changer and power cables. They are taped to the body behind the trim in the back left of my trunk, right next to the power antenna.
The cable is a mini-DIN which looks identical to the one plugged into the back of the head unit. It's not a standard Alpine DIN connector. The power connector is a standard nylon Volvo power connector.
It looks like there is plenty of space to run cables from front to back. My only worry is about noise. Do you think it would be worth the trouble to run the cables underneath outside using wiring harness tubing? I've heard you should keep the power away from the pre-amp signal. Is it okay to run the preamp signal along the same path as the speaker wires though? If not, would shielded preamp cable help? What about turn signals, brake lights, etc. (Can we run our wiring harness along side the current factory harness? The factory harness is in a lovely rectangular plactic tube which can be opened. There appears to be plenty room in their cable fastening system for enough wires to do the job.)
-Erick
Re: V70/S70 - Optional Amp[ALL/1988] posted by pat on
Friday, 9 January 1998, at 7:43 a.m.
Excellent! Thanks for the run down on everything. Your description of the speakers doesn't sound very promising. Wonder, if we really have those speakers from that website.
>> All 4 door speakers are 2-way 6.5 inch paper woofers with a tiny paper tweeter << If it looks like a smaller,higher angle cone glued to the same center, then this is commonly refered to as a 'whizzer'. It's the cheapest way to get high frequencies out of a speaker. I can just imagine the improvements now.
>> They look like 1.1" voice-coil paper tweeters. << Are they soft domes or paper cones?
I would not go through the trouble of running the wires outside/underneath. I always separate the power from the speaker/shielded-line-levels. When running wires, I usually remove the seats, and I run the power down one side of the hump and the speaker/line-levels down the other, away from all factory wiring. If I have to go next to factory wiring, I setup everything else first, lay the wire out alongs it path and then see if there is noise. Whenever you cross factory wiring, cross it at 90degress, and wire tie it to stay that way. The only issue left is to make that amp din cable and see if the pre-amp out of the head-unit has enough voltage to drive the aftermarket amps comfortably. Cranking the gains on the amps is what usually introduces noise, asides from a really bad wiring job. Many head units are starting to come out with 4v pre-outs. In any case, if it doesn't, preamp boosters are plentiful.
Re: V70/S70 - Optional Amp[ALL/1988] posted by Erick Kobres on
Friday, 9 January 1998, at 8:01 a.m.
I read another post here that says the speakers are Dynaudio. This is an *extremely* high end speaker maker. They say there is a drop-in kit for high-end speakers available in other countries. I'm going to call Dynaudio today and see when we can get them. From looking at the Dyanudio web site, their aftermarket car audio speakers *are* rated at 100 watts RMS (!) Maybe they can provide me with the specs for the factory speakers. (Maybe the factory speakers are not really Dynaudio.) Anyway, Dynaudio stuff is normally SUPER EXPENSIVE.
Their stated price policy is: "If we want to make more money, we won't raise production, we'll raise the price."
This is in reference to their home audio gear, which is practically custom.
As for the tweeter, its a real tweeter. (No whizzer.) It's the magnet is 3/4 the size of the cone, which I think is probably 1.1".
I had my back seat out last night, and the factory wires run along the outside of the seat by the floor panel. There is no clean way to get to the hump without going parallel with the factory wires for a ways. There are lots of ways to go outside underneath though.
Maybe that's the thing though, get a preamp "booster" unit and run everything at 4 volts to kepp the amp gain low. Good ones are pretty expensive though.
Are you thinking of running the speaker outs from the head unit all the way to the back so you can do an amp bypass from the trunk?
-Erick
Re: V70/S70 - Optional Amp[ALL/1988] posted by pat on
Friday, 9 January 1998, at 8:47 a.m.
Wow, you've really gotten into this! It's been raining here for 4days straight and the garage is kind-of small so I haven't been able to do anything yet. Supposedly some sunshine tomorrow.
>> Are you thinking of running the speaker outs from the head unit all the
way to the back so you can do an amp bypass from the trunk? <<
Exactly. If I have to go through the trouble of running everything else, whats a few extra wires? I've called a few junk-yards, and nobody has a junked s70,v70 yet. Going to a big electronics store tonight/tomorrow with radio in hand to find connectors that will hopefully fit. Does anybody know if the 850 radio uses the same plugs as the s70/v70 radio?
Re: V70/S70 - Optional Amp[ALL/1988] posted by Erick Kobres on
Friday, 9 January 1998, at 10:50 a.m.
From the installers I have talked to, my description of the x70 connectors is nothing like previous year model Volvos. There was apparently only one connector before. Also, the wriring harness for the radio is not common. The installers I talked to are used to instlling new head units. They usually just cut out the factory connector and wire it direct.
I can't get an answer at the phone from Dynaudio.
I'm heading over to RS electronics in a few minutes to try to find the connector. I went ahead and ordered the harness from Crutchfield, since it was only $10.00. At least that will probably give me a connector manufacturer and model no so I can order the mate, it it's an uncommon connector.
Also, I just got a response from Volvo about mu question on the upgrade amp:
>>>>
To Erick
Thank you for your email. All types of correspondence is appreciated.
Yes you can use the HA-4250 amplifier in your S70-T5. I have been informed
by the accessory people here in Sweden that the HA-4350 would be a better
option but either is good. I hope this has been of some help.
Kind Regards
Paul Gardner
<<<<
The HA-4250 is a 200 watt amp. I wonder what an HA-4350 is? Sounds interesting...
-Erick
Re: V70/S70 - Optional Amp[ALL/1988] posted by pat on
Friday, 9 January 1998, at 11:05 a.m.
Just a guess, but it could be the one used for the dolby-surround systems. The ones with the ugly center channel speaker in the middle of your dash.
Re: V70/S70 - Optional Amp[ALL/1988] posted by Erick Kobres on
Friday, 9 January 1998, at 5:18 p.m.
Well, no one in the whole world has the connectors. I went to two of the bigger electronics supply stores in the area and they both chuckled at me.
I also called both Metra & Scosche which are the largest installation equipment places. Neither has it. I was told by Metra to ask Volvo for a "Theft replacement kit" Some auto manufacturers offer this to allow the dealer to replace the factory wiring harness in the event that it was cut by a thief. That sounds more promising than anything else I've heard. (Assuming that the Crutchfield wiring harness is actually the right one.) Buying and modifying the $50 amp upgrade wiring harness from the dealer is sounding better and better.
I learned that the center pin on the DIN is the turn-on lead. I will have to wire up some RCA connectors to a boom box to figure out the rest. (I could not hear it through the headphones...)
I think I will run a short distance from the DIN to a preamp booster under the center console and let the DIN turn-on lead control it. I will use the accessory pin in the wiring harness to turn the amp on.
If you figure out the other DIN pinouts, please post them here. I'm not planning on fooling with it any more until Monday.
Re: V70/S70 - Optional Amp[ALL/1988] posted by pat on
Friday, 9 January 1998, at 7:19 p.m.
>> Well, no one in the whole world has the connectors << I just got back from the store here with the same feeling. Even the one about buying the volvo harness and modifiying it! I took the radio into the store and compared them all. Some were pretty close.
Local shop says they have the cd adapters in so hopefully I'll get the changer in tomorrow. Also, bought some 6pin DINs and shielded cabling to fool around with tomorrow. If the sun comes out....
Re: V70/S70 - Optional Amp[ALL/1988] posted by Stoney on
Friday, 9 January 1998, at 10:56 p.m.
Erick/Pat-The easy way to check the pinouts is to opn the top panel of the amp and see which color goes to which part of the Circuit board, on my HA-4020 20WX$ amp the RL,RR,FR,FL quadrants were marked on the circuit boards quite clearly. Then just do a continuity check from the solder joint to the pin in the DIN connector. The center is remote, shield is ground and the chassis is also ground.
The 8 and 6 pin DIN Connectors are available from MECI, JDR Micro and Parts Express. I suggest unless you want to sacrifice the amp to radio cable and install RCA's on the end, that you get a good quality 8 conductor shielded cable made by Belden or Mogami. Most "Radio Shack" oops..."(tm)" don't wanna get sued for illegal use of a trademark! quality cable doesn't have the shielding to stop simpathetic crossover of signal.
(Advice unless you have eyes like a bat and scorchproof fingers, sacrifice the headcable-If you get off on this kinda Kazerai god help ya!)
Re: V70/S70 - Optional Amp & CD Changer[ALL/1988] posted by pat on
Saturday, 10 January 1998, at 5:04 p.m.
Well, today was a lousy day. I made half the DIN cable and then figured out the AMP DIN pins. The CD changer install almost went flawlessly.
First the changer (alpine CHM-S601@$319). Took out the glovebox (just remove all the visible torx screws and pull (kind of hard)). Made a hole for the cable and the changer is in with room to spare. Then the adapter. That %(@$#ing adapter. First adapter I was sold ($20) didn't work at all. Second one I tried (Peripheral vol815d-$120,with a circuit box), works but not well. I have a constant buz every second in the left channel (worse at loud volumes) and there is a delay between when you push a button and something happens. I returned it and got another one, but I haven't tried it yet. So the changer fits easily, but getting it connected and working is another matter. They are going to call peripheral on monday and look into this for me. Soundconceptions (an internet audio site) also just replied to me (finally) that their supplier of adapters (unknown) is having trouble making a reliable one for the volvo.
The AMP DIN was much easier. Using a standard 6 pin din, with pin 1 to the upper left and going CCW to pin 6 in the middle, and listening with headphones I determined the following.
pin 1: FL
pin 2: FR
pin 3: RR
pin 4: common audio ground
pin 5: RL
pin 6: amp turn on
Interestingly, it seems that the head unit can detect when a preamp channel is engaged, and then either shuts off the amp/disconnects the speaker for that channel.
Stoney, yes your way is better (I don't have an amp) and is actually what I had to do on the maxima since headphones didn't work, but I always try headphones first before dismantling the radio. In this case, only took me a minute to figure out the connections.
Has anybody installed the alpine cd changer in their S70/V70 and if so, what interface adapter did you use?
Re: V70/S70 - Optional Amp & CD Changer[ALL/1988] posted by Erick Kobres on
Sunday, 11 January 1998, at 10:12 a.m.
I determined the same pinouts as you with a multimeter, playing with the balance and fader. Also, in case you didn't notice, pin 3 is not floating, its shorted to the chassis ground. The cable I made shorts pin 3 to the DIN shell and all of the RCA shields.
I hacked a good quality all-copper 4-way RCA stereo cable with gold-plated leads to make mine. (I got a nice stainless DIN connector and fed the 4-way into it.) I just ran a single piece of wire along the length for the turn-on lead. the whole thing is only about 2 feet, as I anticipate running to a preamp booster under the center console before making the long run to the trunk.
I had already bought some of the shielded cable Stoney mentioned, but I ended up just using the RCA cables since each channel is shielded coax. The belden cable I got is shielded, but not per channel. I'd be worried about channel crosstalk with that type of cable.
I went to the Volvo place to look at their wiring harness and interestingly, they have one kit on sale in their display case. The whole kit - 4x50 amp, harness, mounting bracket - is $441. (That's about $200 cheaper than when I called on the phone. The $600 + price I got was from their price list.) I wish I had the specs on their amp. I'm sure it's probably pretty well matched to the rest of the system, but one has to wonder if it may not be 50 watts at 10% THD :^)
Also, all of the specs on the speakers I had seen on the Volvo Sweden site are for the "Premium" system. This is the one with the drop-in Dynaudio speakers. The Swedish web site (http://www.car.volvo.se/audio/) says that everything on the site (except for head units) is available worldwide. I'll check with my dealer on Monday.
-Erick
Re: V70/S70 - Optional Amp & CD Changer[ALL/1988] posted by pat on
Sunday, 11 January 1998, at 4:01 p.m.
>> Also, in case you didn't notice, pin 3 is not floating, its shorted to the chassis ground. << Yes, I noticed this also but I don't know yet if this is bad (its been several years since I did this alot). Sometimes it can look like chassis ground but not be, however I'm worried it is in this case. For some reason or another I have the feeling stuck in my head that most aftermarket amps don't like chassis ground line-level signals. This needs further looking into.
Went looking for more cd changer interfaces and no luck. I think PIE and OEM are the same which means there are only two brands out there. One local store told me they've had no luck with alpine changers in 98 volvo's. Another said 30-50 days still
Re: V70/S70 - Optional Amp & CD Changer[ALL/1988] posted by Erick Kobres on
Monday, 12 January 1998, at 5:39 a.m.
It meters out at 0 ohms. I don't know if it's a problem either. You could check an existing (name brand) system (your Maxima?) by testing the resistance between the outside of one of the RCA connectors and the chassis.
A guy at HiFi Buys told me this is a bad thing, but I don't trust him. (He's the one who tried to sell me the $1000+ 3 channel Xtant amp without really asking what I was looking for.)
I'm reasonably certain that a preamp booster will solve all of those types of problems. Also, while I was watching the preamp voltage, I never saw it go above .8 volts. And that was a 45hz bass note at full 10% THD volume. :^) It seems weak, but maybe I should try it under preamp load.
Any suggestions for good preamp boosters, equalizers and active crossovers?
My Volvo Service Advisor (tm) gave me the name of the place where the dealer refers all of their custom stereo installations. I'll call the guy there tomorrow and see what he says. He's apparently somewhat of a Volvo audio specialist.
-Erick
Re: V70/S70 - Optional Amp & CD Changer[ALL/1988] posted by pat on
Monday, 12 January 1998, at 11:15 a.m.
I checked the maxima's amps and the rca's have 0ohms to chassis. Local shop I called told me it's not an issue. As for preamp drivers, audio control makes two. I have yet to get prices.
I have found another cd interface adapter by Blitzsafe ($90) that actually says SC816 on it. Will try it out tonight.
Re: V70/S70 - Optional Amp & CD Changer[ALL/1988] posted by Erick Kobres on
Monday, 12 January 1998, at 9:58 a.m.
Okay, I finally got the full story from Volvo:
There is a kit forthcoming which includes the Dynaudio speakers. It should be available for order in the US in about 6 weeks. According to Volvo you need all of the following parts:
Premium Speaker Kit: $2000 - $2200 (Guessing S70 will be $2200 coz 8" subs)
Alpine 3 CD Changer Head Unit: $1088
Premium Amplifier: $495
Amp Mounting Bracket: $17
Amp Wiring Harness: $55
But as you and I know, the only thing you really can't get anywhere else is the speakers. From everything I've read, Dynaudio is one of the best speaker manufacturers in the world. (Many say they are the best, period.) This kit supposedly comes with all the appropriate mounting doo-dahs. The speakers were specially designed and tuned for the cabin jointly between Volvo and Dynaudio. They are even crash-tested. They are all rated at 100 watts RMS. (Its sad to imagine those beauties attached to a cheesy Volvo 4X50 amp!)
It's hard to believe the speakers would be $2200 from a Dynaudio dealer. I would expect closer to $1600-$1800
I'm still trying to reach Dynaudio North America to see what the driver components would run from one of their dealers. Or if they are even available.
'Till next time.
-Erick
Re: V70/S70 - CD Changer Install[ALL/1988] posted by pat on
Monday, 12 January 1998, at 5:47 p.m.
It works! The adapter I'm using is a Blitzsafe VOLALPDMX. ($90). It works so much better than the last one. No noise, the controls respond immediately,and even better the headunit recgonizes the changer immediately. The peripheral and pie adapters would display EEEE every time I changed the magazine and you would have to select 'chgr' a few times before it would work. The blitzsafe works perfect everytime and actually couldn't work any better. As for installing, the cables coming out of the adapter are so short they wouldn't reach the changer in the glovebox so I had to add the 20' extension (still wrapped up) and put it beneath the glovebox.
AudioControl makes a preamp driver, 'the Overdrive', for $119.
Re: V70/S70 - Optional Amp & CD Changer[ALL/1988] posted by pat on
Wednesday, 14 January 1998, at 9:13 p.m.
Have you seen their site? the link is below. Wonder if these are the speakers in their kit.
>> The speakers were specially designed and tuned for the cabin jointly between Volvo and Dynaudio. << I find this hard to believe. It's just an easy comment for them to say. How were they tuned? What was the objective during tuning? What is the spec for a 'tuned' speaker. Sure, dynaudio sent them some speakers and they fit and they sounded great so its a joint venture. I'd sooner believe that the amp has special equalization to improve the sound and that's volvo side of the equation The speakers will sound bad anywhere else and dynaudio (which will sell lots of these?) has an assembly line just for producing a $2000 set of speakers for volvos as an option? I've heard dynaudio speakers are very good but most likely this kit is just one of their regular car products repackaged with more $$$ added on. Also,the cabin is extremely different between the S70,V70 and C70. I doubt they have a line for all the cabin options. In any event, I didn't know dynaudio had a car line and wish I could find the prices if I just wanted to buy their regular car line. Then again they really could have done this.
Dynaudio Car Speakers
Re: V70/S70 - Optional Amp & CD Changer[ALL/1988] posted by Erick Kobres on
Thursday, 15 January 1998, at 8:56 a.m.
>>Have you seen their site?
Yes.
>> >>The speakers were specially designed and tuned for the cabin jointly
>> between Volvo and Dynaudio. << I find this hard to believe. It's just an easy
>>comment for them to say. How were they tuned? What was the objective
>>during tuning? What is the spec for a 'tuned' speaker. Sure, dynaudio sent
>>them some speakers and they fit and they sounded great so its a joint
>>venture. I'd sooner believe that the amp has special equalization to improve
>>the sound and that's volvo side of the equation
According to a fellow named John at Dyanudio USA, the Dynaudio US guys spent quite a while as CES talking with the Danes about the Volvo deal. It *Really* is a specially designed and tuned system from Dynaudio. John told me to buy the Kit from Volvo. I said "C'mon, will they sound as good as something I can cook up using your 240 and 260 series speakers?" He said that's exactly what they are. He said the mounting hardware (and maybe the crossovers) are specially designed for the cabin of the Volvo. He assured me these are not cheesy aftermarket speakers. Dynaudio would never let their name be put on "junk". They Dyanudio US guys seemed very pro
Re: V70/S70 - Dynaudio speaker upgrade[ALL/1988] posted by pat on
Thursday, 15 January 1998, at 9:43 a.m.
>> It *Really* is a specially designed and tuned system from Dynaudio. "C'mon, will they sound as good as something I can cook up using your 240 and 260 series speakers? " He said that's exactly what they are. He said the mounting hardware (and maybe the crossovers) are specially designed for the cabin of the Volvo.<<
I'm understanding this to say that the dynaudio 'volvo' line of speakers is just their regular car line? First its really specially designed and tuned and then he says it's just their car line? I can see how the mounting hardware can be volvo specific but doesn't influence sound quality. Being that all the cabins are different, I was expecting that it was just their regular car line. Have you any idea what the prices are if you just buy their regular car line? BTW, I didn't see 240 or 260 on their site. They do have a cool-looking sub on their pro page. Wonder what it's specs are.
Dynaudio speakers are very good. I dealt with them several years ago when I was custom building home speakers. They have an extensive array of individual drivers that you can order. I don' know if it's still there (I'm not subscribed anymore) but in the back of audio magazine was an ad for a company that sold raw drivers. I ordered their catalog and it was huge. Tons of individual speakers,specs,curves,etc.
Re: V70/S70 - Dynaudio speaker upgrade[ALL/1988] posted by Erick Kobres on
Friday, 16 January 1998, at 10:18 a.m.
Okay, here's an update.
I've been pressuring the bejeezus out of my Volvo dealer and Dynaudio US to give me answers. Here is whet I know now:
Volvo USA just added the part to their computer. The price is *much* lower than originally expected: >>>>$1050<<<<. This supposedly includes all 8 speakers. If they are the ones I think they are, the street price is $1836 (!!!) The Volvo dealer is trying to drum up detailed specs for the speakers and the amp.
>>Have you any idea what the prices are if you just buy their regular car line?
>>BTW, I didn't see 240 or 260 on their site.
Here is what *should* be in the kit: (I hope!)
1 240 series kit ($699/pair)
1 260 series kit ($799/pair)
2 6.5" midbass separates ($169/each)
total: $1836
Dynaudio USA is also trying to drum up some specs. I showed Dynaudio US the Swedish Volvo premium sound web page and asked some questions. They have questions too, especially about the reference to an 8ohm sub and about how the system is wired. They are supposed to get back to me when they get the specs from Denmark.
-Erick
Re: V70/S70 - Dynaudio speaker upgrade[ALL/1988] posted by pat on
Thursday, 15 January 1998, at 9:54 a.m.
Oops! never mind. I just found this site. Are these the models that come in the volvo kit?
Dynaudio car speakers
Re: V70/S70 - Optional Amp & CD Changer[ALL/1988] posted by allan on
Thursday, 15 January 1998, at 3:04 p.m.
>In any event, I
> didn't know dynaudio had a car line and wish I could find the prices if I just >wanted to buy their regular car line.
http://www.theautophile.com
This is the only authorized Dynaudio mail order dealer in the nation, and Peter Lufrano is one of the best sources of car audio information I have ever met. I have a pair of Dynaudio's in my 89 740, and I think they're the greatest speakers ever made. Period.
allan chen
Re: V70/S70 - Optional Amp[ALL/1988] posted by Terence Lui on
Thursday, 8 January 1998, at 12:58 p.m.
Since we are now discussing heavily about all these Amp, subs and speaker issues. I need some help from you guys. I have a set of Amps, subs and speakers taken out from another car and I am now planning to put in my 95 854T. I went to my local audio shop and ask for a quoted price to install the "stuff" (sorry for the choice of words, but my audio knowledge is close to zero). I have 2 Nakamichi 75Wx75W amp and 1 Naka 140W mono amp. 2 Naka electronic crossovers, 2 Naka 8" 160Watt subwoofers and 2 80Watt speakers with passive crossover network. After looking at my car and my stuff, he said I need the RCA adaptor for the deck, a 80 amp breaker, a 4 way fuse block. A custom box for the 2 8" sub. A pair of good speakers for the front. I have my own RCA wires and speaker wires. The total labor and parts (excluding speakers) will be $1000. For the speakers he recommand MB quart which will be about $380. My question is, does this sound right to have my stuff installed? He said that I will end up with a
kick ass system that would cost $5k. Any suggestion or opinion. I am totally lost since I don't know a thing about audio. I would be deeply appreciated if someone could help me out. Thanks
Terence Lui
Re: V70/S70 - Optional Amp[ALL/1988] posted by pat on
Thursday, 8 January 1998, at 2:58 p.m.
>> For the speakers he recommand MB quart << Does he recommend these because that's all he carries? In any event, they are good speakers as I use to install them alot myself, just overpriced in my opinion.
As for the price, I really can't tell. Was the $1000 itemized? All depends on what kind of 'box' he's building for you. Sealed,ported,band-pass,etc. Do you still have the sub parameters for determining box size or is he going to guess? Where will the amps go? Just mounted to the back side of the box or will they be shown off somehow?
80 amp breaker - cheaper just to use an inline fuse right at the battery. Absolutely needed in one form or another to prevent fire due to amp wiring shorting out in accident. You have at least 8 gauge wire?
4 way fuse block - amps,x-overs already have their own fuses and these are usually just expensive show items that installers like to use.
As for the RCA adapter, I didn't see any for volvo(any model) by anyone, so he'll have to fashion one himself (extra $$). Do NOT let them use a speaker-level adapter if your deck has some kind of pre-amp out somewhere.
Ask for a price without the box. Crutchfield sells many pre-made boxes of varying sizes. You might find one that fits your car and has the right volume for your subs. Then all they need to do is run your wires and mount the amps.
Also, get a second opinion!
Re: V70/S70 - Optional Amp[ALL/1988] posted by Terence Lui on
Sunday, 11 January 1998, at 7:30 a.m.
Ok, after going into several audio shop yesterday asking for advice in installing my Nakamichi amps, x-overs and subs, I have learned a lot, but also, I have different opinions from different installers. The first guy that quoted me $1000 for the job: $200 for box(didn't say what type, gave me a approximate dimension and said that the Naks amps are designed for small box) $200 for different parts (RCA adapters, fues box....) and $600 for installation(11hrs). The second shop I went to, the guy didn't really look at my car and my stuff, quoted me around $700 including a $120 box. He told me installation will be no problem, just a lot of wiring. The third guy didn't even want to do the job. He said since the Volvo came with a 4X25amp, I would come upon trouble if I wire the amps after the stock amp, and he said if we take out the stock amp and wired my amps to my radio, it will not work. Therefore he recommand me to just change some nice speakers, add the subs and put a amp and x-over to the sub.
I checked my SC-811 in my 850 today, that's what I see in the back: 1 input for the power, 1 for the CD changer, 2 for speaker wires and 1 for AMP. Currently, I don't have anything connected to the AMP outlet, so where exactly is the stock amp wired into the radio, is it possible to not use the stock amp and use my own amps?
Ok, my question to Pat/Erick: is this what you guys are doing right now: use RCA adapter to put in the radio, put in a amp for front and rear speaker(with active x-over?), another amp and x-over for the sub, change the front and rear speakers and wired them to your amp. If this is what you guys are doing, then, at least I know the basic theory or basic plan for the setup and I will feel much more comfortable and confident when talking to the audio shops. Thanks!
Terence Lui
Re: V70/S70 - Optional Amp[ALL/1988] posted by pat on
Sunday, 11 January 1998, at 7:53 a.m.
>> and said that the Naks amps are designed for small box << what????? or did you mean Nak subs?
>> He said since the Volvo came with a 4X25amp, I would come upon trouble if I wire the amps after the stock amp, and he said if we take out the stock amp and wired my amps to my radio, it will not work. <<
Not true. The AMP din is where you would hook up external amps without going through the stock head-unit amp. I determined the pin-outs for the AMP (I have an SC816,but they're probably the same,posted in another message) and what you describe is exactly what we're planning. I don't see any real hurdles left short of running the wires and trying to wire everything without cutting any volvo wires.
Then again, the changer was suppose to be the easiest part of all this!
>> so where exactly is the stock amp wired into the radio << if nothing is connected to your AMP din, then your only amplification is within the head unit. When you plug something into the AMP din, the headunits amps turn off (at least they did on mine).
>> use RCA adapter to put in the radio <<
You need to custom make the cable that converts the AMP din into 4 rca's and a turn on lead. You can't buy one, or at least I haven't found one for sale.
Re: CD Player woes[ALL/1988] posted by Henry T. Mui on
Sunday, 4 January 1998, at 6:23 p.m.
Have you Bricksters try to e-mail Volvo about the problem! The e-mail for Volvo Cars of North America! I e-mailed them about why is it that the Volvos that are on sale in Europe have a side turn signal and is not present in North America!
They gave me this lame reason as to why it's not high enough for U.S. standards. Why is it on the BMW's??? Try thire e-mail They usually get back to you in about 48 hours!
By the way I have an older factory Volvo/Apline CD unit on my 92' 940 but, never had that problem with it! But, will test it out!
Good Luck!
Re: CD Player woes[ALL/1988] posted by Erick Kobres on
Monday, 5 January 1998, at 5:58 a.m.
Henry,
In Europe the side blinkers are required. IPD sells a kit which lets you replace the side Volvo badges with the same side blinkers they use in Europe!
What is the e-mail address you used to get such a quick response?
-Erick
IDP European Turn Signal Kit
Re: CD Player woes[ALL/1988] posted by Bri on
Monday, 5 January 1998, at 12:59 a.m.
Had this problem in a Honda. Hard to prove that lasers are misaligned. Finally convinced dealer to install new unit. Worked great.
Re: CD Player woes[ALL/1988] posted by Erick Kobres on
Monday, 5 January 1998, at 6:00 a.m.
Thanks.
Only problem is that they have replaced it already. Also, every '98 loaner I have had has the same problem. I believe it's a firmware problem with that model CD Player.
-Erick