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Problems with Volvo[ALL/1988] posted by John Acampora on
Sunday, 15 February 1998, at 12:43 p.m.
>>I tried dealer/local regional rep/VCNA. I don't have the time for the legal
route but the idea of a class is appealing. It is more of a pissed off
issue than a money issue for me. Volvo is a great car with great reputation.
I was hoping to leave the BMW/Mercedes fold for an inconspicuios great
driving car with similar attributes of great handling and safety. What
I bought was a Swedish BMW. What I do have time for is my WWW site and
I will invite consumers to share similar Volvo stories. Perhaps that will
get them right in the pocket. Perhaps potential readers have already been
put off Volvo's by my story. I say great! Bad support should not be supported
by any of us. Is Volvo thinking it is O.K. to be like Microsoft? Oops..
should't rank on MS my stock may go down.<<
I'am still mad as hell about Volvo selling us cars with biodegradeable wiring harness and refusing to help us with even so much as a discount on the replacement part (they want $1000 to replace mine). I bought these Volvo's because I believed they offered safety, reliabilty and durability for my family. The thought of have wires shorting out, engine suddenly failing on the freeway, or a fire breaking out with my kids in the car scares me. Volvo has alot nerve touting family safety and allowing this problem to go unaddressed. Any Attorneys interested in doing pro bono class action suit. Between Swedishbricks, VCOA, Brickboad and others we have a large group or people that have been burned on these wiring harness (hopefully not literally burned!).
John
92 944GL
87 765T
Re: Problems with Volvo/Attitude is everything[ALL/1988] posted by Stoney on
Sunday, 15 February 1998, at 1:47 p.m.
In dealing with any large corporate entity, the manner of approach is key to results.
If you come in blazing and have much attitude and lack of proof then you will get the shaft. Perpare your evidence, get expert opinion/support and then proceed to press your case.
Kicking and screaming just makes it worse-I have run Customer Relations in the past for a firm and was perfecly understanding of the problems and let the customer "vent" their anger on me then started to solve/deal with the problem. But if the person continued to rant/bitch/moan/threaten every time then I would begin to understand that the problem was their attitude not the product.
Negotiation/Problem resolution is a "delicate" process and it takes a "want to" attitude from BOTH sides to achieve a resolution and an understanding that you mayn ot achieve 100% of your desired goal. In all my dealings with my Volvo dealer and VCNA I have gotten results in 90% of the time, when they said "NO" they provided a reason and I researched and accepted their reasoning.
With reference to "biodegradeable wiring" Volvo isn't the only car maker to have problems with a entire part thatwas used for quite a while. Ford had lots of bad 20CDI Straight 6 engines w/ Aluminum heads (remember the Fairmont?), Honda and the rust out fenders, anything made by Fiat (X19 anyone) and I don't recall seeing too many fixes being offered.
Class action suits get results, yes, but not much in the way of $ for the victims just the lawyers! GM Truck Gas tank suit resulted in a $100 coupon for discount on new truck while lawyers got $10 million +!!! I have a number of "checks" from Avis/Hertz that were the reult of someones class action fro "manditory insurance charges" and these checks are for an average of $1.50 each!
"Class action suits just buy new suits for the suits!"
BTW, in local court I am 19-1, my favor, in claims against contract breechers, bad goods, etc. so I know of whence I speak.
Re: Problems with Volvo/Attitude is everything[ALL/1988] posted by John Acampora on
Sunday, 15 February 1998, at 6:38 p.m.
Stoney, thank you for your expert opinion.
I am still mad!
Fiats, Fords Fairmonts and Honda's don't cost $30,000+ dollars and don't make the center of their sales pitch; Safety, Durability, Integrity and Reliability.
I paid a high price for these cars because I wanted the attributes of a car that Volvo was selling. Wire casing that crumbles apart in less than 10 years is not feature of any other car that I have heard of. The potential for problems as a result of bad wiring harnesses is huge. Listening to the complaints on these boards about electrical gremlins, parts failing prematurely, engine shutting down unexpectedly, starters trying to engage while driving down the freeway and potential fires worries me. My guess is that Volvo will never acknowlege this problem because the financial impact would be enormous. They have offered a few individuals that did alot of service business with the dealer a "courtesy" rebate for the harness in the amount of $500.
In my case I simply wrote a letter telling them that I was aware of the problem and that I have heard of many others with this problem, and that Volvo should offer remedy under Merchantability laws (automobile wiring should not self destruct in 10 years). They called and told me to visit the service manager at my local dealer. Which I did. He casually confirmed that yes the wiring is self destructing as usual and could not help me. I have done plenty of business with Volvo dealers, but I am new in this area and have ONLY done about $800 in business with this dealer. I own two Volvo and have put several other friends and Relatives in Volvo's, one bought her $30K Volvo at this dealers and has all of the maintanence done their. With over 100k miles she has spent a bundle with this dealer. I called Volvo back and left a message that I had done what they had requested and was awaiting their reply. No reply.
Was I too harsh...too insensitive..too demanding? I think not.
I believe Volvo is hiding on this mistake and hoping it will go away with time.
So much for Safety, Durability, Integrity and Reliability.
Ever notice that Volvo is no longer advertising these attributes. Now it's sporty, fast, fun, exciting...undefinable emotional factors...like most other car companies.
John
Re: Problems with Volvo/Attitude is everything[ALL/1988] posted by Stoney on
Sunday, 15 February 1998, at 6:59 p.m.
John,
I too own/drive a Volvo and have had past problems with the wiring. My Volvos (78,79,82,87 245's and present 90 240) have had their foibles and I've learned to deal with them, same as I've delt with the problems on the $40 K Lexus my Dad owns, the $50K Porsche Mom owns, the NEW Dodge Intrepid my neighbor owns, etc.
If you know of a problem you keep an eye on it, and yes I have been stranded on the road when the harness on my 82 245 went and I fixed it and learned to check the things as a part of normal maintainence.
Cars don't take care of themselves. But I do agree that VCNA and Volvo AB are bullheaded about this!
As to the safety line, I guess you missed the new ad with Donald Sutherlkand speaking about "Falling in love with a car that can save your life"?
Hey, I'm just pointing out that frequently the problem is the approach taken towards the problem. It can vary from dealer to dealer.
If you owned a new GM Suburban you would have spent $45K+ and have the parts fall off/rattle/etc just as much as a new S70! My Cousin builds them for GM and when you are working 40hrs +20 hrs manditory OT and the boss says "Just slap 'em together and worry about the fixes later" Thats when you start to worry about quality!
Re: Problems with Volvo/Attitude is everything[ALL/1988] posted by John Acampora on
Sunday, 15 February 1998, at 7:50 p.m.
Stoney, appreciate your consoling...but lets stay with the issue: Defective Wiring Harnesses.
I doubt your Dad or Mom are worrying about the wiring harnesses in their Lexus and Porche. This is plain and simple a SAFETY PROBLEM! It is unacceptable for Volvo or any other car manufacturer. I am not talking about a few rattles or fit and finish problems. Self destructing wiring harnesses are not the automotive norm. None of my neighbors with GM, Ford or Chysler products are worried their car might suddenly short out and shut down as they merge onto the freeway with their family, or go up in flames on a hot day because the wiring harness will fall apart. Do you know anyone or ever heard of anyone having this problem with another car make? I have not. I see lots of 30+ year old Mustangs and other cars on the road with their original wiring harness. Do you know of anyone with a Ford, GM other car that has had to replace the wiring harness because it falls apart?
I observe and maintain my cars more than most people..that is why I am so concerned before I experience an actual problem.
Volvo Engineering and Management made a bad decision to use this type of wiring, their intentions may have been good (save the environment), but they got a product that would not perform and is potentially dangerous. For any company and especially Volvo to ignore the problem is irresponsible (if not criminal).
I say Volvo owes us a fix!
John
Re: Problems with Volvo/Perfect Solution[ALL/1988] posted by chris hibbs on
Monday, 16 February 1998, at 8:20 a.m.
What exact model do you have and how much do you want for it?
Re: Problems with Volvo/Attitude is everything[ALL/1988] posted by Stoney on
Monday, 16 February 1998, at 10:47 a.m.
Actually John I was redsponding to the comment about $30,00+ cars shjould be built better but all that twaddle aside...
Ford had similar proplem vis a vis wiring fires du\e to choice of a CHEAPER TO PRODUCE ignition switch part that resulted in dash fires and these parts are installed on over 1 Million cars! It was a choice Ford made and the "fix" is being negotiated and will probably result in lots of $ for the lawyers and zippa-de-do-dah for you and me...
As I have stated I too have had problems with my wiring harness diegrading due to Volvo's choice of material/vendor for the part, I spent yesterday fixing a friends Alt. Oil Pressure and firewall wiring and yes the problem sucks!
I do not believe that a class action suit would do anything but get lots of lawyers rich and result in bupkiss for the owners, Volvo ain't gonna ship out 100,000 new harnesses so a discount on the replacement is about all you can hope for and either install it yourself or pay a tech to do it.
A united front, sans lawyers, would most likely be able to achieve a "negotiated" result that would get the owners the most bang for the buck.
Considering the decision of VolvoAB to sell older parts many\ufacture to GCP should be a warning that they are trimming the fat to survive in the future and that they will play "hard ball" about decisions that cost them big bucks. I hope that some sort of deal can be worked out.
But again it ain't only Volvo, many many other car makers have had major component problems and have never lifted a finger in response! With reference to "Dead on the side of the road" comment-I can counter with same sort of thing from Ford,GM,Chrysler, MG,RangeRover Defender, and so forth...
Yes it would be nice if Volvo took the attitude that Toyota/Nissan takes in replacing parts but let's face it the total annual output from Volvo worldwide does not egual Toyota City plant's total annual output and Toyota has 20 other plants world wide so they have lots more to lose not to mention the "guilt" training that the Japanese have. Saab has never dealt with the myriad of ?MAJOR problems with the wiring/ignition on the 900/9000 series (spill a cup of coffee on their floor mounted ignition switch and then have the car die at road speed!).
As I said I was addressing the statement about cost of the car vs quality/response and not "pooh pooh"ing the problem...
Re: Problems with Volvo/Attitude is everything[ALL/1988] posted by Joe Momma on
Wednesday, 18 February 1998, at 10:39 p.m.
John, you are totally out of control!! Sell your Volvo!! and advise everyone you know who owns a Volvo to do likwise!!!!!. I'd bet you will find a taker for each and every one, be sure to inform them of the wiring harness problem and I'll put top dollar that they'd still sell !! Show some cajones, get off the soap box and either sell the car of fix it! Ps. how many burning Volvos have you seen on the side of the road? Probably a few less than Pintos!!!
Re: Problems with Volvo[ALL/1988] posted by carl on
Sunday, 15 February 1998, at 4:29 p.m.
Yup I agree with you. Basically, I referrenced the service intervals listed in the owners manual and VCNA acknowledged that they did not inform owners of changes. So I have it in writing that VCNA is wrong...end of story. They still blew me off basically claiming independent mechanics don't know how to fix these cars and only a VCNA mechanic can do it. Thus, I lack maintenance I'm SOL. But the reality is 1) they are wrong on paper 2) if they are interested in repeat business for their 30000 dollar product they could notify owners of service changes that mean life of death for your car. I would gladly pay an entra 32 cents in the cost of my car to have VCNA keep me informed.
Re: Problems with Volvo[ALL/1988] posted by carl on
Sunday, 15 February 1998, at 4:58 p.m.
I have to agree with you. Bad engine failures at the wrong time are just as good as a bad crash. There is more to safety than being able to hit a wall. I bought my Volvo because a lady in her 240 was hit by a train and survived! A dead engine for my wife and kids in a bad place is no better than an accident with injuies. Volvo missed the mark on total safety as they got more sofisticated than their engineers could handle.
Re: Problems with Volvo-Collective Complaint[ALL/1988] posted by Jerry Andersch on
Tuesday, 17 February 1998, at 1:34 p.m.
I , like apprently so many other Volvo owners, am more than a little concerned and angered by the problem of disintegrating wiring insulation. Individual complaints or as some have pointed out, class action law suits are likely to prove ineffective in producing any kind of acceptable resolution. Perhaps the collective voice of Brick Board Volvo owners may offer a more powerful option. Not being an expert in internet techniques I am not sure how or if this this appoach may be possible but allow me to suggest it anyway.
What if we produced a kind of electronic petition ... a collective complaint detailing and documenting the Volvo wiring problem. Using the considerable knowledge and experience of Brick Board members we could present hard evidence that this is more than an isolated incident and can not be ignored.
We would express our collective dissappointment and concern over what is a costly and potentially dangerous problem with a product we otherwise have a great deal of faith in.
If someone could produce such a petition ... Brick Broad members could sign it with the names, Volvo model/year and VIN.
I would think Volvo might pay far more attention to 50, 100 maybe 200 owners who not only have banded together in thier concern ... but clearly are well aware of the problem they have in common.
Just an idea ... if someone knows how produce and submit such a document I would be among the first to sign.
Jerry Andersch
1980 242 DL
1986 245 DL
1988 244 DL
1995 944T