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1993 Volvo 960[ALL/1988] posted by Joel on
Saturday, 14 February 1998, at 8:02 p.m.
With 52000 miles, the intake manifold gasket failed. This resulted in a very rough idle and fuel mileage of fifteen mpg. I consider this an emissions problem and therefore just barely outside the 5 yr/50000 emissions warranty. Volvo of course says it's a 3 yr/36000 mile problem and in any case will not reimburse me the $350 this malfunction cost me. Anyone else out there had this problem and been stiffed by Volvo like me? 1993 960
Re: 1993 Volvo 960 a worse problem[ALL/1988] posted by carl on
Saturday, 14 February 1998, at 10:51 p.m.
Well you are lucky. Volvo screwed me when my timing belt broke smashing valvs to pistons. This cost is currently at $1000 US so far. My car has 40k miles! and the manual says replace the belt at 60kmiles! I have it in writting! Later tech reports to VNA mechanics say change at 30kmiles. Well VNA how about at least spending 32 cents to tell your customers about a catastrophic problem that can kill your car? Well I think your problem is emmissions. Your car will not pass smog and the manifold is a part of that. But the problem is these cars suck so bad that VNA would loose money trying to do the right thing. I say let the Internet tell the stories and see how many customers that turns off.
Re: 1993 Volvo 960 a worse problem[ALL/1988] posted by Stoney on
Saturday, 14 February 1998, at 11:10 p.m.
One question: Did you take your 960 to the dealer for regualr service as called for in the manual and under warranty? If you did and they did not change the belt at 30K as called for in the Service Notice then you have a case...if you didn't do what is called for under the warranty then you contributed to the problem and the resulting demise of the belt!
If the dealer screwed up then take it to VCNA and request an arbitration session if you screwed up or decided to save a few bucks and have a non Volvo dealer/shop do your maintainence then you took a gamble, rolled the dice and came up with a seven. That's why they call it "craps"!
If you can prove your case then file your own suit against the dealer in a local court. Your paperwork will back you up. If you breeched the warranty then you're "SOL".
Re: 1993 Volvo 960 a worse problem[ALL/1988] posted by carl on
Sunday, 15 February 1998, at 10:24 a.m.
Well this appears to be a cash generator for VCNA dealers! This is not a service history issue. It is a VCNA responsibility issue to keep original owners informed. VCNA service may be the VNA prefered service but nowear in the waranttee book does it say that other service is inferior or not acceptable. This is an issue of what VCNA is telling owners to do to their cars then changing their minds and not telling us. We then suffer for the changes unless factory service is opted for.
You see timing system was a problem from the first car. The '92 cars were retrofitted with an exhaust side dampener to help the belt breaage problem according to local west coast VNA rep. Later '93 the owners manual was was changed from page 8:4 maintenence interval that says in writing "30kmiles inspect belt change recommened not required and then change at 60kmiles" My web site will post this actual page when I have time. VCNA change this to change every 30kmiles and told the dealers but not the owners. Well VNA told use that airbags could go off of the floor got too wet why not tell us when thousands of dollars of damage could occur when they have changed the timing belt interval? VNA has been a pain.
I fought hard for a steering vibration problem so they on warantee put hydro viscous bushings on a special bar that was no good and they wanted to charge me back to buy the OEM original bar back in to compensate for vibration due to their failure to get the front hubs internally balanced which is why '93 front rotors come with a mark on it to know the out of balance end to match to the out of balance part of the hub to cancel this problem out...that is a rube goldberg if I ever saw one. This is right from South Bay Volvo Ca.
I had to fight hard to get under warantee repair for rapid wearing rear brakes that smoked faster than the fronts. And guess what the front pads had the wear sensors and rears had no sensor. Finally I got after kicking and screaming the update Volvo rear brake pad so tha car runs normally i.e. the rears wear after the front rads.
So there is a snapshot of great VCNA product with great consumer support. I bought this Volvo for the long haul. It died at 40kmiles. A simple 100,000 miles is a long way off.
Re: 1993 Volvo 960 a worse problem[ALL/1988] posted by Patric on
Sunday, 15 February 1998, at 4:22 p.m.
To Carl
This is a service history issue.
There is a big yellow sticker on your timing belt cover that lets you know
that the timing belt needs to be replaced at 30k miles.
on newer cars it tells you to check in your owners manual.
If your car would have been serviced at a Volvo dealer, this would not have
happend.
It is time for you people to understand that you are trying to save money
on the wrong end.
It has become an american habit to always blame the others and go to court.
If your manual saysrecommend t-belt replacement at 30k miles then you
should take that very serious.
Why dit you not go to a dealer, you dit not save any money at the end.
Wake up be a men and deal with your mistake.
A Car that has over 50k miles is out of warantee. bad luck.
Re: 1993 Volvo 960 a worse problem[ALL/1988] posted by carl on
Sunday, 15 February 1998, at 4:40 p.m.
sorry Patric this is 1) not a money issue the 30k mile service is free. That does no mean I have to use VCNA dealers if I have a competent mechanic. I and my mechanic am very capable of changing timing belts. The issue is one of stated service interval. 2) the owner's manual you refer to says change at 60kmiles and 30kmiles is NOT REQIRED. See page 8:4 1993 960 sedans. It is in black and white.
Re: 1993 Volvo 960 - Timing Belt Interval[ALL/1988] posted by Lee on
Sunday, 15 February 1998, at 5:09 p.m.
"...curiouser and curiouser." My '94 960's owner's manual and sticker on the gear cover both require changing the timing belt at 50k miles. Chilton's says the change interval for 960s is: 30k miles for '93 models, 50k miles for '94 and '95 models, and 70k for '96 and '97 models (and those year model 850s). Where does Chilton's get their info?
Re: 1993 Volvo 960 a worse problem[ALL/1988] posted by Tony Helinski on
Tuesday, 17 February 1998, at 10:02 a.m.
Carl,
I talked to my dealer about this t-belt change (93 960 w/~30K miles) and
he said I'd have to pay for the installation of a new belt. $450 is alot
for something that needs changing every 30K miles. What gives?
Tony Helinski
Re: 1993 Volvo 960 a worse problem[ALL/1988] posted by Topi on
Sunday, 15 February 1998, at 4:17 p.m.
Thanks for telling about "30K belt" !! This is unbelievable...How can ANY car maker make such a poor engine design?
Todays LA Times has many Dealer ads for '98 S90. They sell them for $ 29 900 right now! That's $ 7000 discount from VNA. Timing belt problem may be one reason the're dumping them. Volvo is know for short changing the customer. When I worked for Volvo/Mercedes dealer, everybody went for hiding when a warranty problem Volvo rolled in. If it was a Benz , we're fighting to get it. M-B paid THREE times the Volvo !
Volvo has always screwed up their most expensive model: 262 & Bertone, 780 Bertone, 850 T5-R, and now the S90. However, if you stick to their meat-and-potato model you can't go wrong !
In California you can get VNA attention very fast by going to the CARB (California Air Research Board) referee station to get your car smog tested. If it fails, WHAT EVER THE REASON (intake gasket qualify for sure!), go to the dealer with their paper in hand and ask "What you gonna do, boys?" If they refuse to do it under warranty, get it in writing and go back to the CARB. If enough reason, they'll ask for "Nationwide Recall"....My '92 242 had "Check engine" lite coming on now and then. OBD II flashed "Emission computer" code. Local dealer wanted to SELL me a tune-up. I showed my 7yrs/70K smog warranty and told I'm on my way to the CARB. That did it; everyhing was fixed free right the way, $ 1485 for parts and labor. So, you gotta fight fire with fire !
Topi-A 92-242? Where di dyou find such a beastie?[ALL/1988] posted by Stoney on
Sunday, 15 February 1998, at 6:05 p.m.
A 1992-242 Volvo?!?! Tell me wher you found this one!
Re: Topi-A 92-242? Where di dyou find such a beastie?[ALL/1988] posted by Topi on
Sunday, 15 February 1998, at 8:29 p.m.
Stoney - that wasn't the only mistake. Here: sic,sic,sic,sic,sic,sic,...use as needed.
Re: 1993 Volvo 960 a worse problem[ALL/1988] posted by Mark H on
Sunday, 15 February 1998, at 8:14 p.m.
What 1998 Volvo would you consider a meat and potato car??
Re: 1993 Volvo 960 a worse problem[ALL/1988] posted by Topi on
Sunday, 15 February 1998, at 8:33 p.m.
Non ! Buy a used 940, it's 100 x better than any FWD...And the timing belt will last longer than 30 000 miles !
Re: 1993 Volvo 960 a worse problem[ALL/1988] posted by Mark H on
Sunday, 15 February 1998, at 8:36 p.m.
Carl: are you sure your timing belt is not under the emission 5/50 or 7/70 warranty. When I was at the dealer a timing belt that broke befor 50k was covered.(A timing belt is a device that controls timing which effects emisions)
I know I changed them under warranty,even one at 49895 at no charge to customer.
Re: 1993 Volvo 960/dealer or VCNA?[ALL/1988] posted by Stoney on
Saturday, 14 February 1998, at 11:01 p.m.
Did you go all the way to Volvo NA or just the dealer? I have had a few problems where the dealer wouldn't budge but after a phone call and or legal letter to VCNA the dealer "all of a sudden" changed his mind and fixed the problem!
Re: 1993 Volvo 960/dealer or VCNA?[ALL/1988] posted by carl on
Sunday, 15 February 1998, at 10:52 a.m.
I tried dealer/local regional rep/VCNA. I don't have the time for the legal route but the idea of a class is appealing. It is more of a pissed off issue than a money issue for me. Volvo is a great car with great reputation. I was hoping to leave the BMW/Mercedes fold for an inconspicuios great driving car with similar attributes of great handling and safety. What I bought was a Swedish BMW. What I do have time for is my WWW site and I will invite consumers to share similar Volvo stories. Perhaps that will get them right in the pocket. Perhaps potential readers have already been put off Volvo's by my story. I say great! Bad support should not be supported by any of us. Is Volvo thinking it is O.K. to be like Microsoft? Oops.. should't rank on MS my stock may go down.
Re: 1993 Volvo 960[ALL/1988] posted by Shatz on
Sunday, 15 February 1998, at 9:28 a.m.
I'm no expert, but you have to ask yourself whether the intake maifol gasket is a part in the car vs. a part of the emissions controls. While it certainly has a downstream effect on emmissions, does a '55 Chevy have such a gasket? If your answer is yes, I'd say you are out of luck.
I think the overall thing that galls me is Volvo's weak warranty program. A 3 year/36K coverage is just plain nuts for a car with that price tag. Even Acura Integra's have better coverage. Has this changed in recent years? I never buy a new Volvo, but always like to ride the coattails of an in-effect warranty!
Re: 1993 Volvo 960[ALL/1988] posted by carl on
Sunday, 15 February 1998, at 11:02 a.m.
Anything that effects emmissions is emissions. Your power steering is not emissions but your gasket is if you fail smog and have to spend up to the limit of smog rules to repair the problem so you pass smog. it is smog related. Old cars did not have MAP sensors in FI systems these are smog items. That is why OBD2 is so great. The feds have given us a 100kmile warrantee. Believe me manufacturers will be pushing back hard on you because it costs them money. The uninformed and weak will be stripped of dollars. Corporate gread baby. It is hard to win in the trenchs. all you can do is ride their wave in the stock market. This is short term profits. The next wave of business growth will be actually providing customer service not just talking about and pretending they have customer service like Volvo pretends now. Customer service is given to those who scream the loudest...mean that to read "tell the most people" We will see if current corporate ideas ruin a generation of fine automobile reputation.
Re: Emissions is Emissions[ALL/1988] posted by Shatz on
Monday, 16 February 1998, at 12:35 p.m.
Well, at the risk of sounding arguementative, there are lots of things that may affect your emissons output, but are they considered a part of the emissions system?
I suppose that if you had a cracked block that allowed antifreeze (or too much oil) in the cylinder chamber, it might seriously affect emissions quality. Would you argue that the dealer should replace the block as part of the "emmisions system"? Or how about a car that is badly out of tune? Free "emissions" tune-up, then?
Unless this is just an example of a quirky California emissions law, I can't get too passionate about your arguement
Re: Emissions is Emissions[ALL/1988] posted by Topi on
Monday, 16 February 1998, at 6:35 p.m.
Since 1975 we in California have been paying more for our cars. Then, when these "paid-by-us" smog components fail, dealers want to stiff us !!
Re: 1993 Volvo 960[ALL/1988] posted by abe crombie on
Sunday, 15 February 1998, at 11:32 a.m.
If I were as angry about an automobile as you seemingly are I would sell it. The loss you might suffer monetarily would be a pittance to the grief that you express here over troubles you've had with the car.
Re: 1993 Volvo 960[ALL/1988] posted by Lee on
Sunday, 15 February 1998, at 5:16 p.m.
Amen, Abe!
Re: 1993 Volvo 960[ALL/1988] posted by Joel on
Monday, 16 February 1998, at 7:22 p.m.
Thanks for the input and discussion on my intake manifold gasket problem. Paul Newman and David Letterman must have had good reasons for replacing the engines in their 960 wagons with Ford V8's.
Re: 1993 Volvo 960[ALL/1988] posted by Shatz on
Tuesday, 17 February 1998, at 11:16 a.m.
I'm sure they had their reasons, but whether they are particularly good ones or not is up to debate. Just consider the sources. One is a general menace to the road and the other one drives race cars. I for one think the 960 engine is very solid and has more power than any competent reasonable driver will ever need. I'll live witht he 30K timing belt change. You can take the Ford engine; ruining a perfectly good powertrain is just plain silly to me.
Re: 1993 Volvo 960/Newman-Letterman[ALL/1988] posted by Stoney on
Tuesday, 17 February 1998, at 12:52 p.m.
Well I think that David Letterman does us a public service by keeping the Conn. and NY State Troopers busy so the rest of us can get away clean!
It could be worse, Paul owns a Volvo dealership and could have put a Quad 4 Olds block under the hood! He put a Porsche engine in a VW Bug and used to race for pink slips on Mulholland back in the late 60's!
And his wife is still a babe!
Re: 1993 Volvo 960[ALL/1988] posted by Lee on
Thursday, 19 February 1998, at 7:33 p.m.
I read that Letterman's and Newman's (he's had two) were 700-series wagons...
Re: 1993 Volvo 960[ALL/1988] posted by LKB on
Friday, 20 February 1998, at 10:59 a.m.
My 1993 Volvo service-record book, the one that came with the car, says that models with the B6304F (the 960s) engine have a "recommended" replacement of the timing belt at 30K miles, and that this portion of the 30K-mile service is free-of-charge. I have a 240, but the book lists the service intervals for all 1993-model Volvos: 240, 850, 940, 940-Turbo and 960.
So, I don't see how any 960 owner would NOT take advantage of free replacement of the timing belt at 30K-miles.