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850 T5-R - "Rotten apple"[ALL/1988] posted by Topi on
Monday, 2 February 1998, at 10:26 a.m.
Leading Brittish Motor Sport on Volvo 850 T5-R ( January 1998): "In almost decade of road testing , I only drove one new car which rode worse - an Indian Jeep imitation!" I personally came to same conclusion half way aroud the block - 850 didn't have any suspension. Only '55 T-bird, '61 Corvette and P1900 had been worse cars I'd own and driven. Motor Sports' Andrew Frankel: " Volvo rode like its suspension had been replaced by bricks!" ..... and " I knew within 100 yards of driving it that I could never recommend this car to anyone." However, Volvos Porsche design turbo engine get very high score. Remember - this was Volvo most expensive, top-of-the-line car! Now, when even Honda is coming out with RWD car, Volvo should go back to design they know and can build well. FWD manufacturers are often bragging how "superior" FWD is. When they got their ass kicked by RWD Mercedes and BMW at rally and road racing, they voted 100kgs penalty and when that wasn't enough to stop them, they out-lawed them! Besides, RWD is FUN....
Re: 850 T5-R - "Rotten apple"[ALL/1988] posted by Erick Kobres on
Monday, 2 February 1998, at 12:03 p.m.
Sheesh.
I have a '98 S70 T5 and I love it. It's quiet, responsive and corners like a bandit. It doesn't ride like a marshmallow, but then it's not supposed to. (That's why it says T-5 and not GLT) You ever drive a BMW M3? IMO It's harsher than any 850. The only thing I would gripe about on the 850 Turbo is the amount of oversteer, and once you learn the car it's very predictable. If you really hate a car that lets you feel the road, get an S90 or a BMW 7 series. Better yet, get a car w/o 50 series tires!
The '95 850 Turbo *wagon* turned in a slalom speed 1 mph faster than a Porsche 928. Obviously suspension designed to do that will not offer a super cushy ride.
-Erick
Re: 850 T5-R - "Rotten apple"[ALL/1988] posted by abe crombie on
Monday, 2 February 1998, at 12:12 p.m.
If that Magazine got a car that had not had the shipping spacers removed from the front springs, that would expalin their impression of the ride. I have ridden in a 850 T5R on some crappy roads and did not find it to be that harsh..
Re: 850 T5-R - "Rotten apple"[ALL/1988] posted by Paul S. on
Monday, 2 February 1998, at 2:42 p.m.
I think most people on the board know, by now, that you want Volvo to return to RWD cars!
Other than that what exactly is your point?
You don't like the 850 R suspension? Don't buy one!!!!
Please don't take it personally or start a flame mail war, but I happen to like my 855 more than any car I've ever owned.
Buy a used 240......remove the sway bars.....buy some really worn out no name shocks at the junk yard......get some 80 profile tires and fill 'em to 26 psi....now that's soft living.
Paul S.
Re: 850 T5-R - "Rotten apple"[ALL/1988] posted by meb on
Monday, 2 February 1998, at 3:33 p.m.
Topi,
What's your point? Your argument is all over the place like a '79 240 wagon
on bald tires in three inches of snow!
Do you hate the 850 T5-R because of its ride or the fact it's FWD?
FWD or RWD doesn't make or break a car. e.g. Mini Cooper (FWD) Ford Pinto (RWD)!
Regards,
meb
P.S. What rally series was Mercedes and BMW dominating? The cars which dominate
international rallying are generally AWDs not RWDs.
Re: 850 T5-R - "The Best Apples in the Earth"[ALL/1988] posted by han 850T5 on
Monday, 2 February 1998, at 3:39 p.m.
Mr. RWD,
I appreciate your opinion of how you feel about the 850 you drove for a block or so. I just don't think a block of driving experience isn't enough to base your judgement on the entire performance of the automobile. Is the ride too rough? Move on.. go to another dealer and drive other cars. Of course if you already have a biased preference for BMW's and M-B's over Volvos, there's no argument and don't think it's worth anyone's time. No car can be evaluated by its ride quality or supension alone. If that was the case, then purchasing a car shouldn't be so difficult. One would just go for the desired ride quality. Life would be that much simple.
Reality,.... you drove the wrong car, you like RWD, easy ride, do you have the money? if you do, go get yourself a S600 or S500. If you don't got the money, well then, take Paul's advice on the 240.
good luck...
p.s. try an orange this time... this apple ain't for you.
han
97 850T5......... big sweet juicy APPLE.
Re: 850 T5-R - "The Best Apples in the Earth"[ALL/1988] posted by Topi on
Monday, 2 February 1998, at 6:50 p.m.
Hello 850 FWD fans! 1. Motor Sport Fax 011-44-181-943 5619. Send in your demands for correction.... 2. Erick - how much time you spend on the parking lot, going around in circles? Beating a fat 928? So...? 3. Paul - I feel your pain, brother. "850 is the best car I've ever own" Good! You could have done worse, like buying an other top-of-the-line "investment", Nuccio Bertone Volvo. Your first one is down to $ 1500... 30K up in smoke. meb's '79 wagon with bold tyres is worth more! 4. meb - please, go and get some Hakkapelittasf for your '79 wagon. Mercedes and BMW were beating 4WD and FWD cars in European asfalt rallies and FWD factories lobbied to outlaw them. Now FIA 2WD championship is for FWD ONLY! Bernard Beguin won OVERALL CostaSmeralda world championship rally in a BMW M3 !! Happy? 5. Han - is it you moaning how 850 "hurts your teeth"? And desperatelly looking for "Bilsteins"? For a brand new 40K car? Don't you feel stupid? You're giving ME advice to testdrive before buying - how about you? Couldn't find a car you like, have to BUILD one? Hell - for 40K I'd have 40 happy choises! Line is open - SHOOT ! ...and no need to have a cause..or point... or mission...or reason..or whatever. Hey - remove your cap and loosen the band for a notch!
Re: 850 T5-R - "The Best Apples in the Earth"[ALL/1988] posted by Paul S. on
Monday, 2 February 1998, at 8:16 p.m.
Man you are twisted!!! Get a grip!
My first Volvo is worth $1500??? What? I think my 1996 850 (that I paid $26,000 for two years ago is still worth about $22,000 or so). Yes, my RWD 262C Volvo is not worth much, but then again it didn't cost me much.
Please do us all a favor and join the MB or BMW chat. These seem to be cars you love. If you don't like Volvo's then you are in the wrong chat board.
Paul S.
Re: 850 T5-R - "The Best Apples in the Earth"[ALL/1988] posted by FrankT on
Monday, 2 February 1998, at 8:44 p.m.
Paul, While I don't necessarily agree with Topi, I think you're off base trying
to run him off the board. I disagree that this board is exclusively for those
that 'like' Volvos, but rather for anyone with an interest in Volvos. I've
gotten my best results from this board when I've been particularly peeved at
one or another of my Volvos!
I personally want to hear from anyone on here ... good or bad impressions.
Frank
PS: By the way, the latest data that I've seen on depreciation shows a 850
series Volvo depreciates 38% over it's first two years, rather than the 15% or
so that you state. The only car that depreciates only $4K in it's first two
years is one that was very cheap to begin with.
Re: 850 T5-R - "The Best Apples in the Earth"[ALL/1988] posted by Paul S. on
Monday, 2 February 1998, at 9:20 p.m.
Frank,
I would never suggest running anyone off this excellent medium for Volvo information. I merely stated that if Topi wants to talk about the good merits of other cars then he should do it on the appropriate channels. IMHO, one does not have to love Volvo's to participate on the 'board!!
As far as 1996 855 values go in the Seattle area I think my car is worth a tad more than $16000. (38%) KBB says $21,900 to sell (wholesale?) and so my $22000 wasn't that far off. Most ads (don't see many for 855's) are in the $23 - $25 K range. That ain't too bad!!!
Hell I might actually like Topi if I ever meet him! I have plenty of "other car" fanatic freinds at work!! (Who at times crack up at my Volvos!!!)
Paul
Re: 850 T5-R - "The Best Apples in the Earth"[ALL/1988] posted by Topi on
Tuesday, 3 February 1998, at 10:46 a.m.
I was refering for your 262Bertone, and am glad it wasn't you who took $ 28K bath on it...
To meet me ? Well.....I'm not so sure I want to... I just saw you "peacefull" Washington folks do more "road rage" shooting than we here in LA ! In your little state you had 4000 shootings(!) against our 1300 (1997). However, we did three times more killing. How come? Do LA punks shot better, do they use automatic weapon or what? That 4000 incidents is a shocking suprise to me! Specially 'cause you folks put 50 000 loggers packing for two spotted owls in the bushes....Why didn't you shot them?...and kept jobs !
Re: 850 T5-R - "The Best Apples in the Earth"[ALL/1988] posted by Paul S on
Tuesday, 3 February 1998, at 10:57 a.m.
Talk about off topic.....I don't think I saw that stat....I can't imagine 4000 road rage shootings in the state of Washington. Maybe with all the granola folks up here, they report a smile from a redneck as road rage!!!!
We do have high per capita Volvo population. Maybe it's all the AWD folks pissed off at the RWD folks!!! (and vice versa)
Paul S.
Re: 850 T5-R - "The Best Apples in the Earth"[ALL/1988] posted by Topi on
Tuesday, 3 February 1998, at 7:42 p.m.
You're right - it says "4000 incidents with weapon" and "intend to harm". What ever that is is anybody's guess....Still - it's quite a suprise. BTW: What's Volvo part # for a gun rack? They must have one for 4WD ? I visit Washington 2-3 times a year and all Subaru 4WD Dudes have one. I think that Subaru model's called "WETBACK", or something.....
Re: 850 T5-R - "The Best Apples in the Earth"[ALL/1988] posted by Billy Bob Torslanda on
Tuesday, 3 February 1998, at 8:21 p.m.
And the Canadian Version is called the "FROSTBACK"? EH?
Re: 850 T5-R - "The Best Apples in the Earth"[ALL/1988] posted by Paul S. on
Tuesday, 3 February 1998, at 8:46 p.m.
Now that's FUNNY!!!
Shoot howdy
Since Billy Bob stole my line...I'll just say most yuppies in Volvo's just voted to outlaw guns....so why would you ever need a gun rack?
Paul S.
Re: 850 T5-R - "The Best Apples in the Earth"[ALL/1988] posted by Erick Kobres on
Monday, 2 February 1998, at 9:26 p.m.
Lease residuals show Volvo 850's as having the 2nd lowest depreciation over 4 years of all cars sold in the US. The dodge Intrpid is #1 (?!?!)
-Erick
Re: 850 T5-R - "The Best Apples in the Earth"[ALL/1988] posted by FrankT on
Tuesday, 3 February 1998, at 9:14 a.m.
Cool! Glad to hear a pragmatic fact on good resale value! I quoted what I
read from the Popular Mechanics Auto Guide when I bought my V70. I don't plan
on selling it until it is very old (which is why I don't really care about
resale value), but it is good to hear that the resale value is better than the
one source I heard!
Frank
Re: 850 T5-R - "The Best Apples in the Earth"[ALL/1988] posted by Erick Kobres on
Monday, 2 February 1998, at 9:43 p.m.
>> Erick - how much time you spend on the parking lot, going around in circles? Beating a fat 928? So...?
Since we don't have to have a point and we have our caps off, maybe you take $$$ too seriously. No one in their right mind buys a $40000 car as an investment, you dweezle. I bought mine because it's a blast to drive, and if I ever go meet a car coming the other way, I might actually survive the crash. Then again, maybe if we all filled our tires with water we would see your squishy logic.
FYI: The
I don't. I got the data out of Motor Trend. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A STATION WAGON VS. A RWD GERMAN SPORTS CAR! Get a @#!%* grip! I think maybe you're probably suffering from some pent up frustration. Maybe you're not getting the appropriate amount of grin time in the driver's seat.
Re: 850 T5-R - "The Best Apples in the Earth"[ALL/1988] posted by meb on
Tuesday, 3 February 1998, at 9:19 a.m.
Topi,
Didn't see your asfalt(sic) rallies qualifier in your original posting. Also I don't have info about Bernard Beguin's CostaSmeralda win; but I do know that
one win does not a championship make.
I have owned RWDs (Volvos, Triumph, Cudas, Minors) and FWD (Mini Coopers, Volvo); and that which makes a car great is in the execution not the configuration.
If Volvo believes that FWD are more marketable than RWD, what's wrong with that?
To quote a local mayor who was re-ellected after serving jail time "Get over it!"
Regards,
meb
p.s. For your next car, please consider a Volvo 90 series instead of the Mercedes, I believe they're still RWD.
Re: 850 T5-R - "The Best Apples in the Earth"[ALL/1988] posted by han 850T5 on
Tuesday, 3 February 1998, at 10:53 a.m.
Mr. Topi wrote...". Han - is it you moaning how 850 "hurts your teeth"? And desperatelly looking for "Bilsteins"? For a brand new 40K car? Don't you feel stupid? You're giving ME advice to testdrive before buying - how about you? Couldn't find a car you like, have to BUILD one? Hell - for 40K I'd have 40 happy choises! Line is open - SHOOT ! ...and no need to have a cause..or point... or mission...or reason..or whatever. Hey - remove your cap and loosen the band for a notch! "
If I'm not mistaken, these are fighting words. Please don't waste our time... Have a good life.
han
Re: 850 T5-R - "The Best Apples in the Earth"[ALL/1988] posted by Sean Kilduff on
Monday, 2 February 1998, at 9:22 p.m.
Don't be commin' in our HOUSE and startin sumptin', you hear?
Re: 850 T5-R - "Rotten apple"[ALL/1988] posted by Terence Lui on
Monday, 2 February 1998, at 8:31 p.m.
So Topi, why did you get so defensive when you were the one that wrote the "totally unecessary flame-war starting message" in the first place. If you are such a M-B and BMW fan, so what the HELL are you doing here?
I don't care how bad you think the 850 is. But if Volvo didn't have the 850, Volvo would not be as popular as it is right now. On the point you mentioned about we 850 owners have to "built the car we like" with aftermarket stuffs, don't tell me all you cars are 100% OEM stock.
If you don't like FWD cars, don't buy or drive one, it's your problem. And we don't really need to share your personal problem here.
Terence Lui
95 854T (I am pretty sure my car worth more, has more HP than any Volvo you have.)
Re: 850 T5-R - "Rotten apple"[ALL/1988] posted by Bill Matthews on
Monday, 2 February 1998, at 9:23 p.m.
Fiiiiiizzzzzzzz.........splash.......kerplop
Hey orlando we landed another big one, lets troll for some more.
Try some corners in a C70......[ALL/1988] posted by abe crombie on
Monday, 2 February 1998, at 10:15 p.m.
I drove a C70 the other day extensively and it was a terrific handling automobile. The one I drove had 17" tire /wheel setup (factory) and whatever suspension that accompanies that wheel set. It was a bit harsher than I would have liked, but not uncomfortably so. To know that a 850/S-V70 platform can be made to handle like that car did is exciting. I still think the guys in the mag that tested the T5R either had the shipping spacers in the front springs or they were having a prostate flare up.
Re: Try some corners in a C70......A new Bertone ?[ALL/1988] posted by Topi on
Tuesday, 3 February 1998, at 12:08 a.m.
Wow - you guys are HOT !! Did I throw salt to your $ 40K wounds? Must be a sensitive issue when you want to shot a messenger...
Who're you to tell what someone can post? We ain't in Russia, Tonto...I think we can post negative as well as possitive things about Volvos. I'm an owner of 765T "rattlebox" and if you haven't seen through your Blue & Yellow glass', we 700-serie owners are pretty critical on many things but we also give credit were its due. I also own a '92 240 which I have ONLY good things to say. I think you guys know you've been taken for a ride and it hurts...(pun intend....) I compare many cars all the time, 'cause I'm a car nut. I drive Volvos 'cause I think they're very safe and good cars. When I test drive a 850R and find it's below my minimum quality standard and feels like a truck - I do not have a problem saying so. I'm not a lamb on VCNA rope, willing to put up with anything "Volvo" on it, and paying for it! Mercedes and BMW are competing with Volvo for same dollars and it makes sense to compare. I've own few Mercedes and liked them but for everyday commuting Volvo makes more sense. That's why I have them. I also do all my maintenance and repair and MB is an headache compared to Volvo. By been critical about quiting 4-cyl Volvo RWD production me and hundreds of thousands others worldwide can make a difference , and hopefully Volvo will bring back RWD model. If not, my current ones will be the last ones. Mercedes sold 135 000 cars in 1997 - an all time record. I may make it to 135 001..........
1992 240 " So booring, so safe, wouldn't swap to a Rolls"
1989 765T " Goes like Hell, rattles like Hell, I like it"
1969 142 Vintage racer "Kicks any ass expect CHP"
1968 P1800 Roadster "Beachbimbo magnet"
Re: Try some corners in a C70......A new Bertone ?[ALL/1988] posted by Mark H on
Tuesday, 3 February 1998, at 1:26 a.m.
We can always buy the all wheel drive wagon and remove the front axles.....What is the new front drive six cylinder going to be like.I have personaly changed 3 850 transmissions at "100k" (they are like clock work).I can take a 240 trans out and put it back faster then it takes to look for the tools to remove a 850 trans.The trans bills have been close to $3000. Volvo does say you have to change the trans fluid if the vehicle is under "concentrated use ???" I gues that means if you drive the car? I find that nobody is servicing the transes in the 850's, I have a feeling they need it the most.
89 740T 165k 96 855 that stinks like garlic and is about 80k from needing a new trans
Re: Try some corners in a C70......A new Bertone ?[ALL/1988] posted by Goran Haijenhjelm on
Tuesday, 3 February 1998, at 1:39 a.m.
Seems there is a war going on...
Well, I personaly have driven and owned Volvo´s for 22 years. All of them
RWD. 140, 240, 740 16 valve, 740 T and now a 940 T. So of course I am
biassed.
But I would not shoot or laugh at someone buying a FWD 850/S70/V70.
Helll, I would not even try to race against one now (there is winter here
in Sweden...)
But, as Topi wrote, RWD is fun.
Goran
Re: Try some corners in a C70......A new Bertone ?[ALL/1988] posted by Brian T. on
Wednesday, 4 February 1998, at 7:33 p.m.
Those of us who own older RWD Volvos are jealous that Volvo has decided to give you FWD folks the shelf space in the parts department that used to belong to us. Can't blame them, I suppose. You guys have more money to spend than we do, anyway. You'll need it. It's always seemed to me that one of the ways Volvo used to keep prices down was by having such long production runs that a part would fit 10 or 15 years worth of cars. That will be gone now that they're taking the Honda philosophy of changing things every 2 or 3 years. ---Brian T., faithful to RWD til death.
Re: 850 T5-R - "Rotten apple"[ALL/1988] posted by Don Reid on
Tuesday, 3 February 1998, at 10:08 p.m.
This person does not deserve a response.
Re: 850 T5-R - "Rotten apple"[ALL/1988] posted by Topi on
Wednesday, 4 February 1998, at 12:08 a.m.
Really? ......yours was 27th.......Only "Spillfree 850 cup holders" got more.....
Re: 850 T5-R - "Rotten apple"[ALL/1988] posted by Erick Kobres on
Wednesday, 4 February 1998, at 7:33 a.m.
That's because you started a flamewar. Oooooh, how stimulating. I'm especially impressed by your concern with how stupid someone must feel for buying a 40K car they love.
Lighten up. Better yet, if you're so concerned about $$$, check out the Hyundai page. (www.hyundaiusa.com)
-E