Considering a V70T5

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Considering a V70T5[ALL/1998] posted by Pat on
Thursday, 6 November 1997, at 9:13 a.m.

My wife and I are looking at cars and we've pretty much settled on a V70T5. I'm still trying to track one down (or similar) to rent for a week before I actually purchase since I've heard a lot of comments about ride quality,engine noise,compressor noise, etc. Also, since this would be my first turbo, I want to fully understand,feel turbo-lag. Hertz said they do rent T5s(probably auto though), they're just hard to get. However, I do have a few questions:

1) The only thing I visually don't like about the car is how the rear wheels are inset into the car and how much of the wheel well is visible. I like it when the rims are almost flush with the outside. What are the widest size rims that I could place on this car? I don't want the rims sticking out! The 850+ site (http://www.engr.ucdavis.edu/~jmentao/VOLVO/0aftm.html)
had a nice picture of an aero kit with flares that made it look much nicer. Anybody purchased any of these kits or wider/plus1 rims?

2) Is the idle engine noise and compresor noise really that bad. I did notice them on a test drive, and that's one of the reasons I want to rent one first. I was considering a new '98 GS300 but I didn't like the dash, no indash cd,rwd, overpriced,not as fast,and stupid lexus ego. However, when they started the car in the showroom, I almost couldn't tell it was on. However, it only comes in auto and the test drive left me bla. After that, we went and drove the V70. Definitely stiffer, but also sportier. However, the noise is now sticking with me! Does the IPD hood kit help?

3) Whats the average price people have been paying or gotten the dealer down to? I've read all the prices and what should I expect to pay?

4) Any common recurring problems with the car that people have started talking about that I've missed?

Only other thing I noticed was that it seems like the stick-shift feels 'disconnected' from the car. Any aftermarket parts that can improve this?

Also, anybody been able to fit the alpine changer into the glovebox?
Any rumors about next years model?

thanks
pat

(ps, this is a great site)

Re: Considering a V70T5[ALL/1998] posted by Ray Niblett on
Thursday, 6 November 1997, at 11:02 a.m.

> However, I do have a few questions:

If you rent, make sure it is a V70 and not an 850 if the V70 is what
you are interested in (the ride quality seems to be much improved on
the V/S 70's -- I think Volvo heard a lot of complaints in this
area and worked to remove some of the suspension harshness). I would
think a dealer might loan you one of their loaner cars for a day.

> 1) The only thing I visually don't like about the car is how the rear
> wheels are inset into the car and how much of the wheel well is
> visible. I like it when the rims are almost flush with the outside.
> What are the widest size rims that I could place on this car? I don't
> want the rims sticking out! The 850+ site
> (http://www.engr.ucdavis.edu/~jmentao/VOLVO/0aftm.html) had a nice
> picture of an aero kit with flares that made it look much nicer.
> Anybody purchased any of these kits or wider/plus1 rims?

The rear wheels angle in a bit and are, as I understand it, an important
part of the way the suspension has been setup. (Some magazines
have gone so far as to call it passive rear wheel steering.) I'd be
wary of messing with the geometry of the rear suspension.

>
> 2) Is the idle engine noise and compresor noise really that bad. I
> did notice them on a test drive, and that's one of the reasons I want
> to rent one first. I was considering a new '98 GS300 but I didn't
> like the dash, no indash cd,rwd, overpriced,not as fast,and stupid
> lexus ego. However, when they started the car in the showroom, I
> almost couldn't tell it was on. However, it only comes in auto and
> the test drive left me bla. After that, we went and drove the V70.
> Definitely stiffer, but also sportier. However, the noise is now
> sticking with me! Does the IPD hood kit help?

I think this is a hard one to comment on because people vary greatly
in what they consider acceptable from a car (in terms of idle noise,
vibration, rattles). My S70T-5 (manual trans) does not idle as
smooth as it did when new (3800 miles) but it is not too bothersome.
I have not noticed any compressor noise problems. Wind noise form the
mirrors is the loudest noise I have heard (except once in a cross
viper {niblett} % cat temp
> Hertz said they do rent T5s(probably auto though), they're just hard to get.
> However, I do have a few questions:

Make sure it is a V70 and not an 850 if the V70 is what you are
interested in (the ride quality seems to be much improved on
the V/S 70's -- I think Volvo heard a lot of complaints in this
area and worked to remove some of the suspension harshness).

I think this is a hard one to comment on because people vary greatly
in what they consider acceptable from a car (in terms of idle noise,
vibration, rattles). My S70T-5 (manual trans) does not idle as
smooth as it did when new (3800 miles) but it is not too bothersome.
I have not noticed any compressor noise problems. Wind noise form the
mirrors is the loudest noise I have heard (except once in a cross
wind the rain channels on the front windshield started to make a
whistle sound -- only heard that once).

>
> 3) Whats the average price people have been paying or gotten the
> dealer down to? I've read all the prices and what should I expect to
> pay?

I can't say since I traded in a car and that just blurs the
true price paid (I was willing to do this to avoid selling
the car myself). If anyone tells you what they paid I'd make sure
there was no trade-in involved.

> 4) Any common recurring problems with the car that people have
> started talking about that I've missed?

Here is my list of problems (all minor) on my S70T-5 (3800 miles):

Slight oil leak when new. Dealer quickly fixed. Invoice said
(as I recall) it was a leak at the "piston cooler tower".

Power door locks were silent when new. Over time they have become
noisier and have a solid "thud" when engaged. I actually considered
the quiet operation a problem since the passenger could never tell
when the door had been unlocked (the audible clue is a lot more
important then you might think).

Power antenna occasionally does not go all the way up. Should not be
a problem on a wagon (which has the antenna in the rear left window).

Squeak from the steering column where it passes thru the firewall.
A rubber seal was squeaking as the shaft rotated across it.
I moved the rubber seal around a bit (by pressing and pulling on it)
and the noise went away.

The remote control trunk release button is too easy to engage and
I have opened the trunk on accident several times. Should not be a
problem on a wagon.

The paint seems to scratch easily (the clear coat, that is). I have a
dark blue. I'd recommend white and wish I had purchased white since
the scratches are probably not as noticeable with white (I think the
white wagons are quite handsome, too).

The rear drum parking brakes (not the rear disk brakes -- car has
both) will stick if you wash the car and then park it with the brake
set. You get a big "bang" from the rear wheels the next morning
when you backup and the drums break free. You have to drive the
car after washing it to make sure the brakes are dry (a good idea,
in general).

Some slight rattles that seem to come and go. One morning the left
dash speaker grill is rattling. Next day it is quiet but there is
a rattle from the rear passenger seat belt, etc. Might be heat
related.

Overall, I am very happy with the car.

>
> Only other thing I noticed was that it seems like the stick-shift
> feels 'disconnected' from the car. Any aftermarket parts that can
> improve this?

It is cable operated (instead of a direct linkage) and that can lead
to a mushy feel. I had the same initial reaction. Took about a
1000 miles of city driving before I got used to it (kinda like
learning the fell of a clutch on a car you are not used to driving).
Now that I am used to it I no longer notice this.

I feel no need to add a CD changer -- the in-dash unit works fine for
me. Also, I have noticed that the CD player has much better
fidelity then the radio. Of course, I would expect the CD player
to be better but it is much better then other CD/radio combinations
I have owned.

Re: Considering a V70T5[ALL/1998] posted by Pat on
Thursday, 6 November 1997, at 12:55 p.m.

Thanks for the info. The brake note is interesting, especially since I do use the parking brake alot . Do you live in a cold climate?I I wonder what happens if I get home after driving through rain/sleet and then that night we have a freeze!. I had a problem with my current car about water freezing in the parking brake line.

Your're probably right about the clutch. I should just let it go and convince myself that I'll get use to it. However, has the stick/clutch ever bothered/annoyed you in stop-n-go traffic now that you're use to it?

When you mean that your engine doesn't idle as smoothly anymore, does that mean you can feel the engine idle in your seat or through the wheel?

Re: Considering a V70T5[ALL/1998] posted by Ray Niblett on
Thursday, 6 November 1997, at 1:21 p.m.

>
> Thanks for the info. The brake note is interesting, especially since
> I do use the parking brake alot . Do you live in a cold climate?I I

I find I use the parking brake a lot more on a manual transmission.
I live in Silicon Valley (CA). Mediterranean climate.

> wonder what happens if I get home after driving through rain/sleet
> and then that night we have a freeze!. I had a problem with my
> current car about water freezing in the parking brake line.

It's not frozen or even cold (I park in a garage). I think a layer
of rust develops over night that causes the binding. You can
actually see rust form on the disk brake rotors while washing the car
(wipes right off as soon as you use them). Although, in this case,
the disks are not sticking since they are not used for the parking
brake. I suspect the brakes will be hot enough to dry off the metal
components when park the car for the night (the engine and exhaust
should keep the underside warm enough to dry them out). I only see
this problem with the parking brake if I back the car (cold) out of
the garage, wash it, and put it back without driving around the
block after washing.

>
> Your're probably right about the clutch. I should just let it go and
> convince myself that I'll get use to it. However, has the
> stick/clutch ever bothered/annoyed you in stop-n-go traffic now that
> you're use to it?

Yes, on occasion stop-n-go traffic is a problem. My commute is a rare
one in that I don't have too much stop-n-go.

>
> When you mean that your engine doesn't idle as smoothly anymore, does
> that mean you can feel the engine idle in your seat or through the
> wheel?

Through the wheel. Kinda like taking the car's pulse by lightly
holding the steering wheel with one hand.

By the way, I wonder if the Lexus' electric cooling fan was running
when you heard it idle. The fan noise is pretty load on the Volvo.

Re: Considering a V70T5[ALL/1998] posted by Terence Lui on
Thursday, 6 November 1997, at 12:04 p.m.

For wheel size, I saw this article in Street Power magazine with the A&L Racing 855T with 215-40-17 in the front and 225-40-18 in the rear. I think this is the widest you can go. But I really don't see the point of having 225-40-18 in the rear because the widest you can put in the front is 215 because anything wider would rub the strut. Especially when our 850s are front wheel drive. I have 205-45-17 with 17"X 8" rims all around and it definately cure the problem with the wheels being insert too much into the wheelwell and with my car also lowered more than an inch, now everything fit nicely and very aggressive looking indeed.

Definately forget about the Lexus GS300 because it is a ripped off (as far as for the US is concerned. In Japan, they produce GS300s with the Twin Turbo Supra engine which can easily boosted up to 400+HP. My parents have one in Hong Kong and it is a blast to drive.)

Engine noise is pretty loud with the 850s, so may be the IPD engine hood quiet kit migh help a bit.

Terence

95 854T

P.S. Everybody are welcome to check out my Volvo 850 page at http://daniel.drew.edu/~tlui/volvo.html

Re: Considering a V70T5[ALL/1998] posted by Pat on
Thursday, 6 November 1997, at 1:03 p.m.

I visited your site and the pictures are nice. Your answer is what I wanted to here. The widest the rims come from volvo is 6.5" and your're up to 8". How much space to you have between the struts and tire now? Do the tires ever rub on a hard corner? If I do get rims, I'll probably go with 16" (and no lowering) though since I live in boston and the roads are pretty bad here. I have also been looking into the same modifications. Did you perform them all yourself? If so, what was the hardest one? As for the exhuast, is it much louder than the original?

PS: I've already ruled out the GS300.

Re: Considering a V70T5[ALL/1998] posted by Jerzy Rozenblit on
Thursday, 6 November 1997, at 10:02 p.m.

Pat,

We have bought an S70T5 a month ago or so. After 1.6K miles:
The car is very quick. A fast, touring car well suited for the German Autobahnen. If you wanna drive it sedately, it's fine, too. Puts out enough torque at low rpms; all you need is a slight tap on the throttle. Great breaks. Interior room is plenty for mid-size folks; comfortable seats. I could use better bolsters but in general they are roomy and very supportive.

Re: your questions. Indeed, the engine is audible, or perhaps what you've been hearing is the A/C compressor. The noise level rises when the compressor engages. My A/C relay (it must be located somewhere in the dash) clicks on and off like mad. Now, you will not hear all of that with the radio on. Speaking of the radio, indeed as Ray pointed out, the CD's fidelity is much better than the radio's.

Handling is good but definitely does not match that of BMW's. The suspension is stiff enough although there is quite a bit of a body roll. Please check with the fellow netters if the wagon has a rear sway bar. The stock tires are 205/55/16. I guess you could get the lower profile (50) at not extra charge.

Fit and finish is good. I am not much into the burled walnut or whatever. The car's interior is quite nice and stylish. We, too, got the nautic blue. Goes well with the light taupe interior but shows dirt very easily.

I am sure you'll like it.

-Jerzy

Re: Considering a V70T5[ALL/1998] posted by Orson on
Friday, 7 November 1997, at 8:06 a.m.

This is simply my opinion, but I believe that most of your concerns about buying a V70 totally miss the beauty of Volvos. After examining many cars closely (I'm an engineer in the auto industry and I've seen lots) I have arrived at the opinion that there are only a few companies that are willing to design cars with minimal regard to the customer's wants. I believe that Volvo is one of these companies.

This may sound wrong, so I will give you one Volvo example -- the ride of the 850 has been almost universally criticized for being stiff and jarring. However, the suspension tuning is fantastic from a safety standpoint. The suspension has particularly good rebound damping which is absolutely terrible for ride but is great for transitional handling, say when you're doing an emergency lane change. So in this case, Volvo has chosen to disregard what the customer wants because Volvo understands that what the customer wants is not always good for them. It takes guts to sacrifice potential sales in order to do the right thing.

Examples of this type of engineering are numerous in the 850 (I have not examined a V70 but I would venture to guess that they are very similar). I believe that the only other companies that demonstrate this type of engineering are Mercedes (but they seem to be departing from this attitude with their newer models such as the ML320 and the new E320) and Saab (like Mercedes, their newer products are not as pure in engineering terms). I remain undecided about BMW.

As I have said, these are merely my opinions based on my observations. But I think that when you buy a Volvo, you are buying trust in their engineering capability and you must be willing to trust blindly.

Re: Considering a V70T5[ALL/1998] posted by Pat on
Friday, 7 November 1997, at 9:50 a.m.

I appreciate the comments and of the few 'issues' I have with the volvo, the ride quality and suspension are the least. First time I ever drove a volvo, was when I rented one for 2 weeks when first moving to boston and that was a basic 850. The ride was stiff but you just get use to it and yes, I agree, the safety it gives is more comforting than the ride itself. If anything, the V70 improves on that. My main issues, and why I really started this thread, were things like engine noise, etc. Noise,rattles,etc I do not like, especially on a $35000 car. Having a loud engine idle, a 'disconnected' feeling during shifting, etc, I would think to believe have no impact on safety. While the shifting is really just opinion, the noise is not. I noticed the noise on a test drive, and based on some other responses, other owners notice it to. Just read a review, where the volvo had the highest idle sound level of all the test cars, but the @60 was only 1db higher than average. In all likely hood, 99%, I'll be purchasing a V70T5 within the next few weeks. I just want to learn as much good,bad,annoying as I can about the car. This would be my first purchase above the 25000 mark. The fact that all responses to this thread have been positive only reinforces our decision. I also like the 'club like feeling'' that seems to exist between volvo owners. When I first went online to research volvo, I was amazed at all the sites I found so quickly. I then went and did the same for BMW (I was also considering a 5series, but no longer), and did not find as much. Lexus has almost nothing. BMW may have more aftermarket parts available but overall the sites I found, didn't tell me much. Of course, I may have not looked enough, but it doesn't matter since we'll being going volvo.

thanks
pat

Re: Considering a V70T5[ALL/1998] posted by Orson on
Friday, 7 November 1997, at 11:24 a.m.

I understand your concerns and how matters such as engine noise can influence safety. However, I believe that few people appreciate the compromises that are necessary in all aspects of designing a vehicle and I was trying to convey this. One simply cannot have the cake and eat it too. Reducing noise almost always requires a compromise in performance. This, of course, assumes equal money, packaging, and other such restriction, but one always needs to compare apples to apples.

One thread on this board discusses brake pads and I posted a note regarding the compromises inherent in pad design. Using brake pads as an example, creating a quiet system almost always requires a decrease in efficiency or an increase in dusting. As I also mentioned in the same note, I admire Volvo greatly for not compromising performance and accepting the fact that people will complain about the brake dust. I know plenty of manufacturers that give up braking performance in order to get quiet dust-free brakes.

In summary, your eyes and ears can sometimes deceive you in determining the quality of a vehicle. Doing some research with objective information is often more revealing than judging based on superficial perceptions. Volvos are truly diamonds in the rough.

Re: Considering a V70T5[ALL/1998] posted by abe on
Friday, 7 November 1997, at 10:26 p.m.

I have a 98 V70T5 with 10,500 miles and it has been squeak and rattle free in spite of the fact that I never slow for train crossings or any thing else that does not pose an impact threat. I don't have any perception of this car being noisy at idle, not even with a/c on. There is an engine fan that can be heard when a/c is on but it is not objectionable nor louder than any other car I have been exposed with electric engine fan. The only complaint/observation is that the tires wear rapidly if you make use of all the horsepower and torque that the lovely engine makes when you drag race on a regular basis. The brakes are great, the a/c cools a dark colored wagon w/ no tint in Texas heat w/ no problem.

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