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92 960 timing belt fails at 24k miles--is this normal?[ALL/1998] posted by S.P. Rey on
Friday, 16 May 1997, at 1:29 a.m.
Is it normal for a timing/cam belt failure to occur after 24,807 miles of useage?
FACTS:
The car is a '92 960, purchased 11/91, and has 44,807 on the odometer. I live 2 miles from work and the car has seen snow only once.
The original timing belt was replaced at 20,800 miles on March 1994. Volvo recommends the timing belt also to be replaced at the 40k milestone (or after 20k miles of use) at no cost to customer.
The belt broke with 44,807 miles on the odometer, after 24,807 miles of use, after 38 months of use, and was 4000 miles beyond the suggested 20k mile useage or over by 20%). The Volvo of North America rep says there is a 2500 mile lee-way on the 20k service interval (so now I am 1500 miles over or 7.5% past the suggested interval).
The Volvo of North America rep says that Volvo guarantee does not extend beyond 12 months (belt was replaced 3/94).
The belt failure caused TERMINAL ENGINE DAMAGE (1 cylinder has compression and dealer says about $13,000 for a new engine).
BACKGROUND & KEY EVENTS:
About 3 years ago the Volvo dealership failed to fix a rumble like noise (after 18 months of complaining and 20 days of broken promises), I stopped using the dealership for my services. Ever since, the car has been cared for by an excellent independent Volvo repair shop (which fixed the noise for free when I came in from an "oil change" promotion). All other services (save this timing belt matter) have been performed timely with oil changes about every 2-3 months.
On two occassions (October 1996 and April 1997) the Volvo dealership service appointment desk told me that Volvo did not have a special service for my car at the 40k mile level. (For what is worth, Wednesday morning I had planned to storm down to the Volvo dealership, armed with a copy of the official Volvo timing belt interval chart and demand my special free service...but the Volvo devils beat me and sacrificed my engine.
I am not an expert, but the broken belt does not appear to have signs of cracking, has ample rubber both inside and out as well as between the teeths.
ISSUE:
Is it normal for timing belts to break 4,000 miles beyond the suggested interval? Or 7.5% past the modified interval? If not, is the belt defective? What do I look for? Who can inspect the belt for me?
Is the Volvo rep correct when he says that after 12 months Volvo is not responsible for any damage to your car? Does that mean we should start replacing our timing belts and other "terminal damage causing parts" every 12 months?
Any ideas, leads, advice or telehone numbers of persons to talk to would be greatly appreciated.
S.P. Rey
Re: 92 960 timing belt fails at 24k miles--is this normal?[ALL/1998] posted by Chita on
Friday, 16 May 1997, at 2:00 a.m.
Incredible story - this 24k timing belt. I wish I could help, but frankly, I don't think car companies really have to meet normal business standards. Their lawyers will keep you in court until you're too old to drive. If it's not a safety or pollution matter, the owner is usually stuck. Your situation sure doesn't sound normal to me, but I haven't bought a new Volvo in years. A Volvo that doesn't even make it to 50,000 miles... I'm shocked.
A $13,000 repair really means the car is totalled. You might as well have driven it over a cliff. I suggest you start up a web page and talk about this NOW. Perhaps you can get a rise out of them on the basis of bad publicity. At least it will make you feel better. And it could sure help other people. A Volvo that goes only 45,000 miles is a scandal. Allowing it out of the factory is a double scandal.
I have been so enthusiastic about getting my 1800E back on the road, I was actually thinking of buying a Volvo sedan. NO THANKS... You have my condolences.
Re: 92 960 timing belt fails at 24k miles--is this normal?[ALL/1998] posted by Shatz on
Friday, 16 May 1997, at 8:18 a.m.
One big question I have (actually two) is did your independent fellow do the 40k timing belt replacement, and did he also install the needed camshaft dampener? If not, the belt's life is around 20k, not the 30k after that factory paid for installation (belt and dampener) at 40K. There was a factory bulletin on this. Good luck.
Re: 92 960 timing belt fails at 24k miles--is this normal?[ALL/1998] posted by Brian T. on
Friday, 16 May 1997, at 12:38 p.m.
I've worked on a lot of Volvos, but have never worked on a 960. Is this true that 20k is the recommended interval for timing belt replacement? Is this also true for the 850? This seems incredible. Other manufacturers (at least the Japanese companies) are going to longer intervals and it seems ridiculous to me that Volvo's would get shorter.---Brian
Re: 92 960 timing belt fails at 24k miles--is this normal?[ALL/1998] posted by Shatz on
Friday, 16 May 1997, at 3:47 p.m.
Apparently they had some wear problems with the 960 timing belt. The original interval was 20k, but they soon released a fix the took some of the vibration out of the camshaft, I presume. At 40K you were to get a belt and camshaft dampener installed at no cost. This extends the life to 30K. Still miserable short if you ask me, especially when they want over $200 to change the belt alone. I think the newer models have increased the interval, but I cannot tell you what it is.
Re: 92 960 timing belt fails at 24k miles--is this normal?[ALL/1998] posted by Mark Klein on
Friday, 16 May 1997, at 6:58 p.m.
Ok, here is the "low down" on timing belt replacement on 960s. When they came out in '92, the belt change interval was 20,000 miles. At the 40,000 mile service, they installed an exhaust camshaft damper which increases the belt change interval to 30,000 miles. Therefore, the next belt change would be at 70,000, then 100,000 and so on.
The '93 models came with the exhaust cam damper from the factory and the belt change interval is 30,000 miles. The '94 and newer belt change interval is 50,000 (be sure to check your owners manual).
Volvo obviously had a problem with belt life they traced to camshaft "oscillations". This is why they came up with the damper. Later they came out with a wider belt along with the damper.
Volvo, trying to do what they thought would be the right thing to do, offered the first two belt changes (20,000 and 40,000) at no charge to the customer. There may be some dealer personnel who are not aware of this fact as they may not have been employed at the dealer for a very long time. It is next to impossible to "teach" new employees ALL of the past bulletins/updates on older cars.
One reason the dealer personnel may not have been aware your car was eligible for a free 40K service is the fact most all the '92 models are way past that mileage. Average mileage is around 15K per year. Since the '98 models are coming out about now, that makes a '92 model six years old. That means average mileage would be around 90,000 miles.
I know none of this makes your problem any better. When your independent replaced the belt at the 20K service, did he use an aftermarket belt or a Volvo belt? Due to the facts surrounding the short life span of the belt, your best recourse is probably dealing with the regional office. They may have already been contacted and were the ones who refused to help with your repair. One thing they may take into consideration is where the car has been serviced previous to the problems.
Wish I had better news but at least you may have a clearer understanding of what may have happened.
Re: 92 960 timing belt fails at 24k miles--is this normal?[ALL/1998] posted by Shatz on
Sunday, 18 May 1997, at 12:03 p.m.
Mark, Your remarks about the free belt services at 20 and 40k is well-timed in itself.
I just this week took my 92 960 into my "friendly" dealer (where I purchased it) for its 40 timing belt service, expecting a free belt and dampener installed. Not so, the service rep called to inform me that I was "looking at over $400 to intall both. I told him he was wrong; that the service bulletin that accompanied my owners manual stated that at 40k I would get this service free. He checked with his manager and Vovlo Field rep. Both said "NO", it was out of warranty. I told them warranty had nothing to do with it. I immediately called Volvo Cars of NA Customer Assistance and apparently Warrant y services talked to my dealer saying that its covered. Now my dealer beleives that is conflicting information and refused to do the job until it was clarified. The service department offered to throw in the dampener and installation, but would charge me $200+ for the belt and labor. I told him to eat my shorts.
I'm now waiting to hear what they plan to do. I suspect since I have been a non-acquiesing customer in the past, and got quite a few things done to the car before I accepted purchase, and have had to fight for other things, they just abitrarily drew the line at this. Would like to hear form any Volvo people tuning in...
Re: 92 960 timing belt fails at 24k miles--is this normal?[ALL/1998] posted by Shatz on
Wednesday, 21 May 1997, at 4:14 p.m.
Problem resolved. Volvo of NA called my dealer and set everything straight.
Re: 92 960 timing belt fails at 24k miles--is this normal?[ALL/1998] posted by abe crombie on
Wednesday, 21 May 1997, at 2:58 p.m.
Unfortunately you missed the recomended service interval on your belt. I question the "excellent" part of the comment about the service shop you are now using since they didn't forewarn you of this neede service. There are a few autos out there for which the cam belt interval can be close when age and operating hours go up though odometer milage doesn't. Porsche 944 models come to mind. Your engine may be repairable if the damage did not extend to the pistons. The cylinder head is normally serviceable unless the failure occurred when engine was running significant revs when belt snapped. Good luck and pay close attention to the service requirements.