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Big brouhaha --[ALL/1998] posted by Chita on
Sunday, 13 July 1997, at 1:28 p.m.
Apologies for being so late getting back to you. It's been a nightmare around here. Had a brake failure in a Ford truck. Scared the bejeebers out of me. Eventually ended up at a Little Shop of Horrors, which necessitated all my attention for days. Yesterday, got back Ford (from third shop - it's a long story) with a bunch of new everything, still needs alignment. So time has gone into that instead of the 1800E. Except I did drop the gas tank and it will be out of the cleaning place tomorrow. The sandblast gun for the wheel cleanup hasn't arrived. Meanwhile, once the wheels were off - it looked as if everything hung onto the axles were one big coral reef of frozen rusty parts. I haven't had a chance to talk to the mechanic about it. With the Ford brake failure fresh in my mind, I'm ... well, I'm not ready to face another catastrophe. My first urge is to call everybody on Earth and ask about replacing the entire business, from master cylinder on out to nuts and bolts on the pads...
I really hadn't expected this, actually. Looking under the car, there's hardly any rust at all except for the exhaust pipe. A few scratches, that's it. The car's been in California all its life.
I haven't done the battery area yet - that was waiting for the sandblast outfit too, since I need to get that area down to bare metal for the epoxy. Compressor and epoxy kit await.
I might need a bit to get over fear of brakes... If I need all new parts, it's ... difficult. I'll have to gear up the grey matter for that.At this moment, I have almost zero trust in mechanics - and no skill to do it myself. I expect I'll get over it.
Re: Big brouhaha --[ALL/1998] posted by Jim Ells on
Sunday, 13 July 1997, at 9:21 p.m.
Hi Chita...Stay calm now, it'll all work out. Sorry about the FORD. FORDs are not good for our health. This is obvious.
I'm on my way outa here but want to mention a couple of things to you so you won't amp out any further. Regarding rust: Full strength Muratic acid eats the oxidized coral reef stuff instantly. What you'll end up with is bare gray metal. Looks just like you sandblasted it. Must be careful not to breath da fumes. This stuff is very tricky, but, neato-spadeedo results. Wear goggles and good organic type breather. Use gloves too.
Always neutralize (sic?) with TSP (tri-sodium-phosphate), available at any hardware store. Rinse the TSP with 50/50% vinegar & water. When parts are dry, spray'em with any light oil. WD40, etc. Muratic acid gets anything organic. We've used this method to de-rust parts for years. Even "cooked out" marine engine mainfolds to like new (with a lot of TLC, of course).
Also - there is a spray can product called "CYCLO" something or other. It is the absolute best when it comes to getting through corosion and rusted bolts/joints/ etc. Usual application - spray a little, tap tap tap with a small ball peen hammer, spray some more, let sit, spray again, tap tap tap, and so on.
What is it about the brakes on the FORD that's got you backed into a corner? Money? Help? Bad music? time?
Auto mechanics - This is a tough one. Some are good, some aren't. I prefer either race car folks, or sniff around the boat yards for one of those independent web footed grease people that out of necessity, has to "get and keep things going". You never know what you'll find when you start looking.
Not knowing your situation, I can only offer so much moral support. Are you a week end car weenie, having spent mon thru fri at a desk and computer?
Anyway, let us know how you're doing. BTW-what town are you in/near?
Regards, Jim - we be up by Seattle way.
Re: Big brouhaha --[ALL/1998] posted by Chita on
Sunday, 13 July 1997, at 11:27 p.m.
Pardon the ennui. The Ford presented one of those "life flashing before your eyes" sorta episodes on a busy freeway at commute hour. One complication led to another. Meanwhile, before all this happened, I'd promised the loan of my one remaining reliable vehicle to a family member, so ... more complications. Ongoing and boring.
Now, about that rust buster, muriatic acid. Is this the stuff one gets from swimming pool companies? Will it really leave good steel, busting only the rust on top of it? I already have a mask with OSHA rating for organic vapors. (Plus goggles, gloves and overalls.) I tend to be a careful worker.
As usual, I'll log your advice and study it. It's so weird - I'd Searched the Web for rust removal techniques and got a bunch of sales pitches for various caustic products. Nobody mentioned this simple solution.
Re: Big brouhaha --[ALL/1998] posted by Jim Ells on
Monday, 14 July 1997, at 10:30 a.m.
Chita: FYI, Various industries have used muriatic acid for years. It simply gets the job done. The rub is that OSHA will kill you if they catch you. Actually, me, probably - having a manufacturing business and employees, etc.
RE:the acid, it is possible to tweak up the mix with thickeners. Ordinary Naval Jelly is a simple gel base with a minuscule amount of acid. I suspect it's probably muriatic. Problem is w/NJ, it never seemed to do anything for us.
For our own use, and to create a paste for doing verticals, we've added talc and/or cornstarch with a float of parrafin oil (oxygen block) to up the viscosity index. You can even charge back to West Marine and pick up some 3-M Micro Balloons and toss in. BE CAREFUL WHEN MIXING THIS STUFF. Mirco Balloons usually come in a bag, look like powder, and are used as an additive to resin for making filler. They are actually microscopic glass balls. ('Like to see the machine that whips these little puppies out...) Anyway, Good luck with it all. Nice message from Ed Lipe. I was glad he came online with the back-up.
Oh Yeah! - Don't fret about the rust... not ever. Replace what bolts you can w/stainless. Flat parts usually clean up for painting and are servicable once again. Castings typically are OK. Sometimes the threads need to be chased. We've raised boats that have sunk - been down as much as three months in salt water - flushed everything w/fresh water, gone after the machinery w/a vengence, & had things going again in a month. Injector pumps and Electrical thingy's typically need complete rebuilding. I'm telling you all this for a reason. Most people do not have experience with this sort of trucking about, and therefore, disaster looms everytime the least little thing gets out of predictable sync. Mechanical things are a lot easier than most often, immediately perceived.
Again - Good luck. Keep in touch.
Rustbusting with muriatic acid--[ALL/1998] posted by Chita on
Monday, 14 July 1997, at 12:00 p.m.
Jim said, "For our own use, and to create a paste for doing verticals, we've added talc and/or cornstarch with a float of parrafin oil (oxygen block) to up the viscosity index."
What is this "float" thing? You melt paraffin wax and pour it into the acid and cornstarch mixture?
Re: Rustbusting with muriatic acid--[ALL/1998] posted by Jim Ells on
Monday, 14 July 1997, at 5:35 p.m.
NO NO NO NO! parafin oil, sometimes called oil of parafin, is just a liquid version of the wax. For instance, parafin oil is an additive used in polyester laminating resin to create "finishing resin." Laminating resin, designed to stay "green", or tacky when cured out, is then ready for a second course. Parafin oil (wax-additive) is simply added to laminating resin in the manufacturing process to create what is called "finishing resin." The wax additive floats to the top surface of the resin and keeps the "air" out. The cured surface is now totally "dry" to the touch, and may be "worked off" or what ever. (We're talking fiberglass here, not epoxy)
Pure parafin oil is also used to finish off bread boards, wood counter tops, etc. It's an ingredient in some over the counter wood finishes where food will be in contact w/the newly finished surface. It's also the main working ingredient in Thompsons Water sealer. Thompsons is a rip-off, however. You pay big bucks for ordinary paint thinner with a tny bit of parafin oil in it. Great scam. Wish I'd thought up this one-boy, howdy!
You may purchase parafin oil at any decent paint store. Fiberglass supply houses have it as "wax additive."
To "float" one liquid into or over (onto) another is the very same thing as what they do to your drink when you order something like a white mint & soda w/a brandy float. Reason to "float" - you just want the stuff in the batch. You're dealing w/acid and fumes. The procedure is to pour the oil into a table spoon or similar receiver, and gently "ladle" the load of oil onto the surface of the acid. Always try a "teensy" little bit as a precaution against NOT having PURE parafin oil. There are some cheap imatations containg additives that may or may not be volatile when encountering muriatic acid. Any more questions, be sure you get back to me. Percentage wise, you want about 5% of the total batch.
Regarding thickening: It is almost impossible to control the splash index. The acid is water thin and difficult to handle. Besides, you don't want to be brushing this stuff in its native form. When it's really doing it's thing, great big clouds of very nasty stuff appear. These are the easy ones to dodge. It's the invisible ones that will nail you without warning! This stuff is extremely dangerous to organs and mucous membranes. You can't breath-not even a millionth of a part-this stuff. Same for the eyes and skin. The price you pay in careful handling is worth the great results. Reason for all this rhetoric, is that I am accountable to your over-all well being because of the information supplied. You implement it at your own risk. If you're not comfortable, get back to us with the question immediately!
OK, got a little windy there. Just try what ever ingredient you like in order to raise the viscosity index. You may not even want to bother with this part of the mess, if dipping and flooding will get the job done. Good luck. I like the fact that you check back, as this is your first encounter w/some really weird stuff. I'll be more at ease if I know you understand what's going on regarding the rust busting w/real acids etc. Jim
Re: Big brouhaha --[ALL/1998] posted by Ed Lipe on
Monday, 14 July 1997, at 12:42 a.m.
Yes, I've used muriatic acid in a swimming pool. You can find it in most hardware stores, if not, try a masonry supply(bricks,morter,concrete,etc.) Don't leave those parts in there for very long. One hour at a time between checks and tappy tappy tappy to chip the reef down to size.
Re: Big brouhaha --[ALL/1998] posted by Stoney on
Monday, 14 July 1997, at 10:03 a.m.
Ed & Chita, Muratic acid is best way to go, it is a lot easier to use than TriChlorEthelyene or any of the other REALLY NASTY things out there. Just be perpared for a few look as it is also used by some folks in the production of
certain illegal controlled substances (Crystal Methadrine) and recently I was asked for a company ID or business card when I had to buy 5 gal container for cleaning perts.
Chita, glad you are OK. Brake failures are not fun at all, I had to buy new seat covers after my old Chev C10 did same thing on expressway. When I finally got stopped the emergency brake shoes were welded to the drum from the heat/force of the stop.
Did anyone at least stop and offer help?
Re: Big brouhaha --[ALL/1998] posted by Chita on
Monday, 14 July 1997, at 12:34 p.m.
Stoney said, "Chita, glad you are OK. Brake failures are not fun at all, I had to buy new seat covers after my old Chev C10 did same thing on expressway. When I finally got stopped the emergency brake shoes were welded to the drum from the heat/force of the stop.
Did anyone at least stop and offer help? "
Well, they sure did tell me where to go, that's for sure... Actually, I did pull off onto a shoulder that (thankfully) was immediately available. It took the parking brake to stop. I just sat there for a while. We have a bad habit here of running over people dumb enough to get out of their cars to walk to an emergency phone. I had no cell phone with me. so the choice came down to waiting for a CHP officer to pass by or try to think up a route that would be safe in case of more failures. The pedal did come up after a whille, so I took the latter course. (We also HIT parked cars...) Crept off at the next off-ramp and went first gear if the road dipped anywhere. That pedal did indeed fail again on the way home, but I managed it. When I finally limped into my driveway, it felt as if I'd landed a moon shot.
I know exactly what you mean about needing new seat covers... I start reaching for Depends just thinking how lucky it was to happen at that spot, rather than a bit further down that same road. I shudder like castanets, thinking about what could have happened.